To think people with eupd aren’t taken seriously when struggling

[User30372]

A friend of mine has repeatedly told professionals that she didn’t feel safe and was going to do something. She’s now seriously unwell in hospital and I just feel if people listened to her she wouldn’t be in that position. I’m sure she will be sent back into the community despite this. I know inpatient care isn’t the answer to everything but surely for someone at such high risk it should be considered not dismissed due to a diagnoses.

warrennicole

yes, but they are a child no more. Nor does it make what is happening to their own child okay

Surely by that same reasoning your friend is an adult now and responsible for her own issues rather than blaming her mum?

Vilifying those with EUPD isn’t th way to help those around them. As another poster suggested, supporting the sufferer well is likely to improve matters for those around them too.

Sorry, but schizophrenia and BPD are not remotely comparable

Why not?

Also, if someone struggles because of their childhood experiences with a physically ill parent, nobody responds with blame for the parent. Everyone sees it as sad for all concerned.

When it’s a mental illness, people are very quick to blame.

@WarrenNicole then what would you suggest is comparable? Both are mental illnesses with traits of disordered thinking.

My DSis used to get so angry with people who assumed she'd been abused. She never had been. Honestly.
Being the sister of someone with EUPD was very hard. There was so little understanding of what she was going through. She totally resisted doing anything in a group!
She was manipulative but that wasn't really her.
I miss her beyond belief.

Well, this thread has shown that the stigma towards those with a dx of EUPD is still doing well.

Mention of alcoholics too.

The folk who just need to fucking pull themselves together.

weebarra I can see both why people would make that assumption and why it would be annoying to your sister. I’m intrigued as to how EUPD develops without abuse and I admit I wonder about a chronic but low level invalidating environment? Bullying at school? But maybe not and your sister would know better than any of us.

@Mulledwineinajug, of course she is, that is why she is in therapy and has been for years. It is a fact that her trauma was caused by her mother, not an excuse. Denying the abusive environment my friend grew up in doesn’t help her, nor is speaking her truth “vilifying the sufferer.” Trust me, my friend couldn’t do more to support her mum. But to what cost? To the neglect of her own children?

. It is a fact that her trauma was caused by her mother

Is it? Or was it caused by her mother’s illness?

@QueenOfOversharing - why are you twisting my post? My comment regarding alcoholics was not in comparison or with regard to EUPD at all. It was with reference to the threshold for sectioning in general.

You talk about stigma, but then go on to compare EUPD with schizophrenia!

Both EUPD and schizophrenia are severe mental illnesses that affect a person’s perception of reality, that can be life threatening, that can result in behaviours that seem strange or frightening to the outside world.
Both carry huge stigma.

There’s a lot there that invites comparison.

Is it? Or was it caused by her mother’s illness?

It’s one and the same, really. Her mother could have taken steps to seek treatment, like she has promised to do so many times, but hasn’t. My friend understands that it is more than likely too painful for her mother to seek treatment, but nor is she willing to be her emotional punching bag for the rest of her life.

FabbychixI appreciate that you are living with this illness but other posters are right to challenge you on some of your points.

EUPD can be cured. I and others are testament to that. DBT doesn’t teach you to mask feelings. It is absolutely possible to learn different ways of coping so that the feelings and need to react in certain ways just aren’t there any more.

I agree with this. Schema focused therapy has an evidence base for curing EUPD also. Also, symptoms often become less prominent as people age, so some people stop meeting a criteria for a diagnosis.

I dislike EUPD being framed as being "attention seeking". I think it's better to think of it as having an unbearable feeling on emptiness which some people understandably try to fill.

It is not an easy condition to have, nor is it easily treated.

@Mulledwineinajug, one is a psychotic disorder and the other isn’t.

This is a bit of an aside but I think a very interesting point about the diagnosing of EUPD in the female population. A psychiatrist I’ve work with has commented about how poor the diagnosis of ADHD is in females and how often the rejection sensitive dysphoria and emotion disregulation present in ADHD is misunderstood as EUPD. Coupled with “edging” behaviour (basically living dangerous/compulsively) in a quest for a “dopamine hit”, which is also part of ADHD. Lots of women taking part in DBT who might benefit from ADHD medication. DBT is very helpful for EUPD of course but these conversations have got me thinking about how careless we may be becoming about PD labels. (This doesn’t apply necessarily to your friend OP, it’s just a conversation I’ve had a few times).

OP, im really sorry your friend isn’t getting better support.I agree with others, I think DBT would be very helpful for your friend. Availability is somewhat patchy. It may be worth talking to your local branch of MIND as they often have a handle on local provision.

warrennicole you are incorrect. Psychosis is common in EUPD.

There’s been a shift towards diagnosing complex PTSD in lieu of EUPD/BPD to recognise that many have suffered sustained and serious trauma and also to move away from the stigma that’s always been attached to BPD. That said, I’m not convinced the stigma will be eliminated by changing the name.

What may appear to be manipulative behaviour is usually the unwell person screaming “please help me”. The problem is that they’re not well and not thinking rationally and clearly. They’re trying to establish coping mechanisms but it doesn’t work. Often it doesn’t work because the mental health system doesn’t hear these people properly. It’s underfunded and under resourced.

Unfortunately, some people in this world are manipulative and attention seeking, this is not unique to EUPD, it’s a personality trait. It’s not impossible for someone to have EUPD but also be naturally attention seeking. It needs an experienced professional to unpick what is their illness and what is just a normal yet undesirable personality trait, that we all have.

@Mulledwineinajug

I agree that people with EUPD can have concurrent psychosis but it is not classified as a psychotic disorder. Many places separate out services for psychosis intervention and PD teams. This has pros and cons but does recognise it is categorised differently. That said, I am aware that people are people who do not fit neatly into diagnostic boxes. I have mixed feelings about it.

I was going to mention CPTSD too. I prefer the label.

I think it is important to recognise that people with EUPD have developed ways of coping because they had to, to survive trauma. Not because they wanted to. Not because they are enjoying themselves.

The physical development of their brain has been impacted by trauma. As has their brain chemistry.

It’s possible to relearn and to reshape the brain. But not easy. Many people can’t despite enormous effort, like my late friend. She wanted to be well more than anything.

@Mulledwineinajug, it is not a psychotic disorder. Talk about misinformation.

I agree it’s possible to relearn and reshape the brain but first, we need the funding and secondly, we need the resources. If there were experienced, skilled professionals able to deliver treatment and support in a timely manner, I’d have a lot more hope. Sadly, until that happens, people will continue to get stuck in a negative cycle with services which is understandable because services can often be appalling.

@schulyer having worked in mental health I would say that more people than not with a diagnosis of BPD / EUPD experience psychotic symptoms.

Like you say, I don’t think mental illnesses classify neatly.
Bipolar disorder is classified as a mood disorder but usually has psychotic features that are mood congruent.
Depression can have psychotic features (less commonly than EUPD in my experience).

, it is not a psychotic disorder. Talk about misinformation.

It is a disorder that more often than not has psychotic features.

How ironic that you are talking about misinformation, @warrennicole

@schulyer I totally agree with your last post about resources. Totally.

The original name Borderline Personality Disorder came about due to a belief that sufferers were on the ‘borderline’ between psychosis and neurosis.

An attempt to divide mental illness neatly into psychotic disorders and neurotic disorders placed BPD in the middle, as most people experienced psychotic and neurotic symptoms.

I think you are using ‘psychotic’ to mean somehow more real or outside a person’s control. That’s incorrect.

A quick search has found estimates between 35% and 80% in differemy studies re the prevalence of psychotic symptoms in BPD. Mostly without a concurrent diagnosis of a different illness causing psychosis. BPD / EUPD sufferers seem to have a low ‘threshold’ for psychosis and to experience psychotic symptoms at times of stress. We all have a threshold of psychological and physiological stress that will trigger psychotic symptoms when it is reached. In individuals with BOD it appears to be much lower than the average.