To think he isn’t ‘just’ an animal?

[RhodaCamel]

My lovely, lovely little dog has to have a lump removed tomorrow.
He has had this fatty lump for a couple of months and I honestly thought it was a fatty lipoma so was absolutely shocked to hear the vet tell me on Saturday that it’s a mast cell tumour, it will need removing, sent to pathology and in a week we will find out what we are dealing with.
The vet did start to talk about what happens if it has spread and there was talk of possible radiotherapy or chemotherapy etc, which are obviously very expensive treatments. I would have to borrow the money for something like that tbh but he is the absolute joy in my life so I would definitely consider it.
However, dh says he says he wouldn’t want to put our dog through it and in all honesty what if we spend all that out and he doesn’t make it anyhow etc, that we have to think of the expense.
I’ve mentioned it to a couple of friends and several have said no way would they spend that kind of money, some wouldn’t even have the lump removed!! And according to them he’s only ‘just’ a dog at the end of the day.
This saddens me so much because these friends would quite happily spend thousands a holiday or something materialistic yet look at a beloved pet as something almost disposable.
I am a dog walker so spend a lot of time with dogs and I can honestly say they are nicer than a lot of humans I know!
So maybe I am BU but he’s been with me 8 years, he’s with me all day every day and has helped me though depression etc. I can not think of him las a nothing, to me he is a huge part of our family and not ‘just’ anything.

I think there are pet people and non pet people. As a non pet person I honestly can’t fully understand how someone can feel so much towards there pet. I do try not to put those feelings across to friends but to me a pet dog is just a dog.
I’m sorry for you going through it - just trying to put forward a non pet person perspective

Hold that thought. He obviously is not just an animal BUT (and I say this as a dog owner) you do have to think twice, once with your heart and again with your head.

Ignore your friends, they don't have any emotional attachement to him, But is your DH right? Would borrowing that sort of money be feasible? Can you afford repayments? Might the vet give you a payment plan?

But it hasn't happened yet....maybe it will not. If not maybe you need to start a saving pot for him, just in case.

Best of luck waiting for those results!

I agree with you, veterinary treatment is part of having a pet, you can't just toss out an animal once it becomes an inconvenience.

Your DH may be right, however, and it's worth speaking to your vet about the chances of success vs suffering of your dog. You might be able to give him the opportunity many humans would want and not get - to end their life peacefully without pain.

I do understand his importance to you, but you also have to accept that others don't feel the same way. I don't think they're seeing animals as disposable or as 'nothings', but rather as, accurately, not human, and that they're assessing where their personal limits would be in spending potentially multiple thousands of pounds in supporting a pet through illness. Similarly I don't believe they're advocating cruelty in saying they would have limits, I'm certain that a humane euthanasia would be far preferable to long term pain and distress.

YANBU. Our dog is every bit as much a member of our family as a lot of the other members (and more than quite a few of them!), and if we could feasibly afford to treat an illness and for her quality of life to not be affected, then we would do it in a heartbeat. She's definitely not 'just a dog'; she's our dog and we owe her the best we can manage.

I'm with you, OP. If its in the best interests of my beloved cat, I'd spend all I could afford to keep him comfortable. If his quality of life wouldn't be good however, I'd have to let him go. Its all about quality of life, pain free, comfortable and contented. Cost is the last factor we consider. People who don't love animals expect you to care about their kids, and im not a kud person. Whilst I wouldn't expect anyone else to make a fuss over my cat, I do expect consideration for my feelings when I lose him....

Also the quality of life argument is very different to the 'I wouldn't spend that kind of money' argument. It's fine to have concerns about invasive or gruelling treatment being right for the dog, but that's a very separate concern from 'I wouldn't spend that money on a dog'.

I’d look at the quality of life. If he comes through having the rumour removed then how is the chemo/radio likely of affect him?

Will he just be existing rather than living. Are you wanting to keep him alive for you, or because he’s got the best chance of making a full recovery.

Also you’ve not said how old he is either? Our ancient terrier had a mass on his leg, he was fine one week and the next he really deteriorated and we had to have him Pts as the cancer had spread to his brain and the poor thing forgot how to toilet, walking was iffy and went completely blind. He was 17.

I have always said I wouldn't let me dog undergo treatment some people decline. He doesn't understand why he will be in pain and feeling poorly, and there is no guarantee of success or quality of life afterwards.

You do also have to think about the financial implications. I have 2 ponies, 1 is insured and 1 isn't. The one that isn't is a lovely boy and a much loved pet. However, if he had any serious illness or accident I would have to think long and hard about what treatment I would fund, purely based on the fact that I don't think he would tolerate enforced box rest very well and his job is to be a kids pony. And having been there with our previous pony, it took about 3 years for her to get back to normal mentally.

You should always do the best thing for the animal and the best you can afford. They aren't always the same thing.

Fingers crossed it's a localised tumour and can be removed completely. If it hasnt been analysed at all yet then there is no certainty it's mast cell anyway. I'm a vet nurse. Honestly having worked in referrals in not sure even I would put my own dog through chemo. It's OK if going through it, at least we have an understanding of why. Poor dogs have no idea and it's a lot to go through. My dog is insured so it certainly wouldn't be a decision made about the money either.

I get you and understand, and so sorry about your dog but I wouldn't put my dog through such invasive treatment we would have him euthanised.

A pet isn’t just an animal. However I wouldn’t put a dog through chemo unless the prognosis was very promising or the dog was so young that it would seem wrong not to try. Chemo is awful enough for humans that understand what is going on, I can’t imagine how it must feel for a dog that probably doesn’t even realise it’s ill.

I think it depends.

I think that while animals are undoubtedly members of the family, there does have to come a limit when it simply isn’t feasible to spend the money with no guaranteed results.

Realistically how much could you afford? How much debt would you be prepared to go into? 5 grand? 10? Re-mortgage the house? Obviously that is extreme case scenario but you do have to be realistic when talking about just how much you would spend on a dog which by mere virtue of it being a dog probably won’t live as long as it will take to pay off that kind of debt.

I don’t think of it as seeing an animal as disposable, but often there’s a lot to be said for allowing a dog to slip away peacefully without putting it through a lot of invasive and stressful treatments. Bearing in mind that cancer treatment is horrible for humans, much worse for animals who can’t explain and who you can’t explain it to.

I wouldn't put any of my animals through it.

It's worth bearing in mind that chemo for dogs doesn't necessarily make them feel like chemo for humans too. They tend to tolerate it a lot better than humans. My friend's dog had chemo and was her usual bouncy self, even on the day of the chemo.

I understand how you feel. We got a puppy who after having her a few weeks became very poorly and it turned out had a liver shunt which needed surgery. We had used all our insurance cover on bringing her to the emergency vet running tests etc so when she was finally diagnosed we were told it was £3000 for the operation or she would die eventually as she was deteriorating. We had to take a loan out which to be honest had a big impact on our finances. So many people couldn't believe we were going to pay that sort of money on a dog especially a puppy we had only had a few months but there was absolutely no question of not finding the money and treating her. She is now a perfectly healthy 2 year old and we adore her. Hope your dog gets better soon...

I think you have to balance the heart and the head. My friend found out that her dog had a very aggressive cancer and was told that she only had 6 months, 8 at best. With surgery and chemo she had her for another 2 years. It wasn’t cheap, and she had insurance which helps, but she managed to pack so much in in the time they had left together.

I’m a pet person, I have a 16 year old lab who without hydrotherapy, physiotherapy, drugs and other simple things like ramps, massage jacket, help em up harness etc would probably have been put down years ago because of arthritis. But he is still mobile, still enjoys walks, plays and eats. It takes a little effort on my behalf but whilst he still enjoys being here, I’m happy to do it.

And I hope I can offer some reassurance as he has had many fatty lumps. Some have had to be removed and some have been left but all have turned out to be benign. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you both.

Thanks all. I think the shock of the news and seeing just how healthy and sprightly he looks atm just put my rational thinking head out of the window and whilst I appreciate that not everyone is an animal lover it stings somewhat when someone says he is ‘just’ this or that because obviously, to us he is so much more.
It screws the brain a little when vets start mentioning very expensive treatments which obviously others do pay out for and you start thinking that if you don’t give your own pet the same opportunity then you are somehow failing them which I know deep down is t the case, of course if he was extremely poorly and had very little quality of life then I wouldn’t go down that road. But as I say he is just full of life and vigour.

singlebutmarried he’s 8.

Get the tests and find out what you are dealing with. I don’t think the money should be the decider, it should be the level of illness. Unfortunately in my experience vets are happy to make money prolonging the inevitable at the clear detriment to the animal. Cancer treatment is gruelling and he will not be the same dog going through it. If the chance of a full recovery is likely then it may be worth it, if the chances are 50/50 or less I wouldn’t subject them to it.

Chemotherapy for pets doesn't use as high doses as the focus is on life extension at a good quality, not a cure, like in humans. So it's quite usual for a pet to have very few, even no, side effects, and if they do have any side effects that impact quality of life, the dosage will be adjusted.

More info here
m.petmd.com/dog/general-health/chemotherapy-dogs-everything-you-need-know

YANBU. Be proud of your connection with your dog, and the fact that you are doing the best for him. Wishing him well.

Sorry I missed the part where it’s already been diagnosed.

If the treatment was in the dog's best interests, then I would definitely go through with it. Because it is not just a dog. Dogs,cats and other animals are pets, best friends, soul mates, play mates, companions, fellow adventurers, counsellors and life savers all rolled into one furry bundle. Tbh I feel sorry for anyone who hasn't experienced that.

I understand completely. My cat is a much loved member of my family. She s only 3 so has full insurance but over Christmas i went without extras and spent over £100 on vet trips and medicine for a UTI. I lost my 15 year old cat to kidney failure 2 years ago and was devastated. If money could have kept her going I would have spent it.
Sorry to hear about your dog lets hope it s not as bad as you think.
Some people just dont get how we love our pets.

The vet did start to talk about what happens if it has spread and there was talk of possible radiotherapy or chemotherapy etc, which are obviously very expensive treatments.

It's not just that they are expensive, it's that animals have no idea why they're feeling sick, lethargic and terrible - they are not human, they do not reason. Putting an animal through chemo and radiotherapy is beyond cruel. You're not doing it for them, you're doing it for you. I understand that people love their pets but these are not small furry humans with human thoughts and feelings, they have no concept of "this treatment will make me better in the future" and to go through that and still have no dog at the end of it - surely that's a form of torture. I would never do that to a pet of mine.