To think he isn’t ‘just’ an animal?

[RhodaCamel]

My lovely, lovely little dog has to have a lump removed tomorrow.
He has had this fatty lump for a couple of months and I honestly thought it was a fatty lipoma so was absolutely shocked to hear the vet tell me on Saturday that it’s a mast cell tumour, it will need removing, sent to pathology and in a week we will find out what we are dealing with.
The vet did start to talk about what happens if it has spread and there was talk of possible radiotherapy or chemotherapy etc, which are obviously very expensive treatments. I would have to borrow the money for something like that tbh but he is the absolute joy in my life so I would definitely consider it.
However, dh says he says he wouldn’t want to put our dog through it and in all honesty what if we spend all that out and he doesn’t make it anyhow etc, that we have to think of the expense.
I’ve mentioned it to a couple of friends and several have said no way would they spend that kind of money, some wouldn’t even have the lump removed!! And according to them he’s only ‘just’ a dog at the end of the day.
This saddens me so much because these friends would quite happily spend thousands a holiday or something materialistic yet look at a beloved pet as something almost disposable.
I am a dog walker so spend a lot of time with dogs and I can honestly say they are nicer than a lot of humans I know!
So maybe I am BU but he’s been with me 8 years, he’s with me all day every day and has helped me though depression etc. I can not think of him las a nothing, to me he is a huge part of our family and not ‘just’ anything.

Horrible attitudes from people who don’t understand. Our cat had to undergo bladder surgery last year and the medical bills cost 2.5k... it was an emergency situation that insurance couldn’t cover and he would have died from it over the weekend if we hadn’t had made that decision. All the family and my partners family together chipped in, along with the vets decision to cap our bill. I spent most of my annual leave caring for him over the summer, I honestly couldn’t believe the amount everyone pulled together to save his life.

He’s happy and healthy now although on long term meds, very clingy and loving and you can tell how grateful he is over our care. We’ve paid everyone back. I would have paid that to extend his life even just for a year, he’s part of the family and would never be considered as just an ‘animal’. Pets are for life.

I do hope you get the best outcome you can out of this situation, it’s awful having to go through with other people’s non understanding attitudes

I don’t understand either. Why would you toss out a dog who’s been a living part of the family? (of course I know there are financial reasons, but other than that) I definitely view my dog as more than ‘just a dog’ and he’ll be part of our family until he dies.

YADNBU. My dog was one of my best friends and brought me and my family so much joy. I wouldn’t have dreamt of putting her to sleep if there was an option of treatment and that treatment was not going to be too awful.

Cost? Well, I had good insurance but I’d have taken out a loan if necessary.

OP - just because the vet mentioned chemo, don’t feel too down until you know exactly what you’re dealing with. IME, vets like to lay out the ‘worse case scenario’ for both illnesses and cost. They do that to prepare you for the possibility. It might be your precious dog doesn’t need extensive treatment. As a PP said, take each step as it comes.

In the last months of her life, my dog (who was old) had a serious medical condition. With the help of my insurance (it didn’t pay full costs) I paid for an exploratory op and for her daily meds, and she enjoyed some fantastic time with us.

I don’t for one second doubt that that’s what she wanted. She enjoyed every minute of her ‘extra time’.

As said above, even if your dog did need chemo, it’s very different from chemo in humans.

I think you need to deal with this when you have more information. The tumour might be removed and that might be the end of it.
If the cancer has spread then the vet will be able to inform of you of the extent of this spread and possible options.
It's always very difficult but you need to be fully informed before you can even start discussing it. Piling lots of money into expensive treatments when it is only going to extend the animal's life by a few months is different to a situation where a few doses of radiotherapy are highly likely to put the cancer into remission.

I've had to have two cats put to sleep in the last two years. For one of them there was no question at all as she went downhill very rapidly and wanted to go - it was very obvious. The other one was more difficult - I was offered all kinds of things for him but I knew it would just cause him too much distress and not help in the long run (the prognosis was not good at all) so I chose palliative care and he lived another 8 months until his bad days outnumbered his good days.

It's hard so my thoughts are with you.

That said after reading the thread, I don’t know if I could bare to see my dog suffer long-term with having chemo as that would be cruel and I know the best thing would be to stop it.

They are part of your family and much loved. However you must think, not only of the costs but of pain and suffering extended treatment might bring, and chances of a full recovery. When there is insurance there is sometimes a tendency to do everything and its not always in the best interest of the animal. I had the same dilemma at Christmas and had my beloved horse put down. It broke my heart but my head said it was the right decision. The loss is terrible. Sometimes you have to steel yourself. Think first of the animal

One of my dogs got cancer last year. I’d just watched my friend die of cancer, slowly going downhill for a year, and the end was horrible - I told my vet I wasn’t paying to put my dog through that. We tried two types of medication for two weeks, but they didn’t work. During those two weeks we did all his favourite things (even lit the fire for him at night in August!) and made a huge fuss of him. We had him pts quietly in his own bed at home. I don’t regret it. I miss him like crazy, he was my favourite ever dog, but I feel like we did the right thing for him. He was starting to not be himself, to slow down.

One of my friends put her dog through chemo and it was awful. Another of her dogs got cancer and she avoided chemo, going for steroids and acupuncture instead. The dog went through a really rough time. In my opinion she kept both dogs alive too long and for her own good, not there’s.

Anyway sorry to be doom and gloom. Fingers crossed that in this case it’s early stages and operable.

I just realized my post sounds as if I gave up on him. I didn't and I would have paid for his treatment if I thought it would have helped. The vet herself said there was limited chance of it working and I would have had to take him 3 hours away to a university hospital.
I did spend thousands on him anyway for the initial investigations, treatments and then the palliative care.

Some animals need help to die though they dont always pass peacefully.

We faced a very similar situation a few years ago. A biopsy showed it was most likely cancer. We had the lump removed and it was indeed cancer. We chose not to have radiotherapy as it would have meant travelling an hour a day a few times each week or possibly leaving our boy for a few weeks at a specialist vet miles from home. He’d have hated both of these options so along with him being older, we chose to give him a good life for the time he had left. He had a wonderful few months after his operation, all his favourite foods and lots of cuddles. We even allowed him upstairs which he wasn’t allowed before. He loved being with us overnight.

We didn’t have insurance but would have paid any amount if we thought it was the right thing. He’d had various conditions and needed a special diet and these combined with his operation near the end cost a couple of thousand pounds. I don’t think I would put an animal through cancer treatment in any circumstances as they just wouldn’t understand, but I’d never say never as you have to look at individual circumstances and weigh it all up.

We still miss him everyday, but I know we made the right choice. It’s so hard. Wait for the results and go from there.

When you bring a dog into your family you accept the financial responsibility of giving them the best quality of life or you shouldn't do it.

I feel that very strongly.

If your friends don't want to do that - fine - but they should certainly not judge others for taking their responsibilities towards a living creature very seriously.

I'd pay whatever I needed for my dog. The only question for me would be about his quality of life.

Our dodg had a mammary tumour removed last year. She is 10. Coped amazing and recovered as good as new tbh, but if she had needed chemo I would have said no. . Sadly they found a heart murmur post op
.. She has more lumps and signs of a brain tumour now. I know I won't /can't put her through surgery but she has had an extra year. We have made it a great one - her time is running out but I couldn't have put her through more at 10 +now.
I have shut down anyone who has told me spending 1.5k on her was daft...

I have always said I wouldn't let me dog undergo treatment some people decline. He doesn't understand why he will be in pain and feeling poorly, and there is no guarantee of success or quality of life afterwards.

I agree with this, and the rest of Frouby's post. I love my horse more than I care about many people. He's my absolute rock. He is however a horse. He's elderly and currently enjoying a lovely retirement. But if any battles come his way, I will in all probability have him put to sleep. He's had some great years with me. We've done fantastic things together but in a situation where a human would fight, and know what they are fighting for, with him I think euthanasia might be kinder.

So see your dog as incredibly important to you, but make your decision based on his best interests as a dog. And be slightly realistic about cost when thinking about treatment. I'd stump up £2k if there was every chance my horse would come through the treatment fine. But £1000 and knowing he'd be in pain and suffering and it might not work? No.

This saddens me so much because these friends would quite happily spend thousands a holiday or something materialistic yet look at a beloved pet as something almost disposable.

Rhoda I am sorry for the shock of discovering your beloved dog's lump is non-benign

I completely agree with you.
He is your pal - what's the point of flash holidays & possessions, when your pal needs you?

I think people who are capable of viewing dogs as disposable possessions which should be discarded when they become expensive (probably because they prefer to spend the cash on material goods) & who can dismiss your upset, as well as the dog's life, with "just a dog" remarks are the same kind of people who are capable of dismissing people too. There are plenty of them about - who believe some other people have less intrinsic worth because they are "just a woman" or "just a gay guy" or "just a brown person".

I understand that some people don't 'get' animals, & am certainly not saying that anyone who feels this way is also a people-hater who categorises other folk for dismissal. But the lack of empathy - especially from your DH, who should know damn well what the dog means to you, is heartless.

When he says "I don't want to put the dog through it" is he actually just saying "I don't want to spend money on him"?

He's your dog, & it's your decision.
Borrow the money if you need to.
There are no guarantess, & you may - I am sorry - end up heartbroken anyway & in debt over it. But that is YOUR choice, & you have to live with the outcome. You won't want your memory of his last weeks (IF he needs treatment, & IF he doesn't respond to it) to be tainted by self-recriminations.

I absolutely understand your sorrow & frustration OP.
Why wouldn't you want to prolong your dear friend's happy life?
So long as he isn't having to manage non-stop pain, you keep him going. Don't listen to DH. DH won't be grieving in the same way as you.

I’d definitely pay for it for my dog, but I’d consider how horrible he would feel getting chemo. Having the surgery is most definitely worth it but with the other treatments I’d research and take vet’s advice re how the dog will feel, for how long and the chances of it working.

Pets can be very much loved members of our families.

I spent almost £1000 on my cat after the vet suggested putting her to sleep, just to be able to confirm that what was wrong with her was terminal. It was money well spent in my eyes even though I couldn’t afford it at the time.

Also I meant to say I can’t stand it when people say ‘it’s just an animal.’ These people are usually not my type of people on other matters either though. Like you say they often think nothing of spending thousands on holidays etc, each to their own but personally l, I put my pets above holidays and possessions. Our pets are part of our family and we’ll do the right thing for them, always.

When you bring a dog into your family you accept the financial responsibility of giving them the best quality of life or you shouldn't do it Doing that means getting proper levels of insurance....

Honestly depends on the age of the pet, how long the life expectancy is and the quality of life for me.

I personally wouldn’t spend thousands on a pet that may only live another six months and probably be in pain.

This thing about dogs being 'nicer' than humans, well of course they are nicer they don't have the cognitive capacity to scheme and plot like humans do, furthermore we have genetically engineered them to have the personalities that we want them to have, they are human creations!
Do you think that if the dog species had evolved to a level of cognitive sophistication that humans have achieved they would be benign?

I think it's hard because in the UK, healthcare is free for humans but can be very expensive for animals. I don't think there is any right or wrong answer here. It depends on the cost and the prognosis for the dog.

I've spent a small fortune on my cat, but it's not beyond my budget. I'm not sure about taking out loans to pay for his treatment.

When my beloved cat was extremely ill, I didn't hesitate to pay for the treatment despite it putting me back into debt. He was part of my family so there was no question of not doing it. Luckily my husband agreed with me. Not easy when you're on different pages over this though.

You should always do the best thing for the animal and the best you can afford. They aren't always the same thing.

You are right of course @Frouby.
Loving your pet to distraction also involves knowing them well enough to know WHEN to let go.

I've been so skint in my time I've had to choose between bread or milk. It didn't stop my arthritic dog getting his expensive meds every month. If there had been an op available to put him right, I've had sold my house to afford it, or gone cap in hand to my cousin for a loan.
However ... the morning he told me he could not cope any more ... we had 6 hours to say goodbye before the vet came for her final visit.
My job, my duty - to do right by him as he always did by me.

Rhoda - you will know the time. Take your vet's & your dog's advice, nobody else's.

If - and at this stage it is still an if - it is a MCT, then there is a good chance that he may not need further treatment after surgical removal. In the case of low or intermediate grade MCTs removal of the tumour and margins is often all that is required. One thing to note is that often it is necessary to excise a fairly large margin of tissue around the tumour to make sure that it is all removed, but again, this generally doesn't present major issues. Where on his body is the tumour located?

Even in the event that radiation therapy or chemotherapy were indicated, dogs generally tolerate these treatments extremely well with few or no side effects. It is not comparable to human cancer treatment. The cost is obviously another issue if you do not have insurance, but the treatment itself is absolutely not "cruel". The decision whether or not to proceed with any treatment should be based on the diagnosis and prognosis of each individual case, but where appropriate chemotherapy can and does offer dogs a significant increase in life expectancy with normal quality of life.

As for 'what would I do with my own dog' - one of my spaniels developed a MCT on her chest at the age of 10. She was otherwise fit and healthy. She had blood tests, a needle aspirate of the local lymph node, x-rays and ultrasound to check for any spread, and she had the tumour surgically removed. She had a course of radiation therapy post-surgery due to the grade and stage of her particular tumour. She did not require chemotherapy. There was no reoccurrence and she lived another 4 good, happy years.

It's hard but try not to catastrophise too much before you know what you are dealing with. It's entirely possible that it can be resolved with fairly straightforward surgery. In the event that further treatment is required, you can discuss this with your vet at the time.