David Lammy and Jamaican deportees

[Myohmy111]

David Lammy’s speech, in which he is critical of the government’s decision to deport convicted offenders to Jamaica, was very impassioned. However, it was disingenuous of him to have made the connection between this issue and the Windrush scandal. The two are not the same; the Windrush debacle was a disgrace and involved numbers of innocent individuals being caught up and deported illegally to the Caribbean . Those who were deported today were convicted criminals who served at least 12 months in prison and crucially, they were subject to due process. Unless there is evidence to indicate that other nationals of different ethnicities and races, such as white Australians, have not been subject to the same level of enforcement of this policy , he is wrong to label it as a racist move by the government.

This one hits home for us as a family as my children's father came to england from jamaica at age 5 with his family, had indefinite leave to remain and all he knew was England. He wrongly got himself into trouble and was sentenced to 18 months in prison. Served his sentence and was released - with a low risk of offending again along with some paperwork stating he was to be deported to jamaica. We went through the appeals system and lost, without being told what happens next and when. On boxing day 6years ago a knock at the door came and he was taken and put on a plane out of here. Left at the airport in Jamaica not knowing anything about the country or anyone there.
I completely understand that was a consequence of the decision he made to commit a crime and I am now raising 2 boys alone without their dad because of it. I assumed that the prison sentence was the punishment at the time, never dreamt that this would happen.
My problem with the system is that it seems to depend on the judge on the day of your appeal as to whether you "win" the right to another chance. I personally find all these appeals regarding the deportation of other foreign criminals insulting. It should be a blanket rule that you get deported according to the rules. Maybe I'm just bitter but it I find it very unfair that some get to stay whilst others don't. Its should be consistent.

I'd want them to be brought to justice. I'm not really sure how deportation achieves that.

I'm sorry you and your children are going through this avoiding.

I don't particularly like David Lammy. He makes very passionate speeches which sound great. But I don't find them to be always truthful or accurate and the parallels that he draws can be tenous. For example, his speech about doing the right thing and standing up to Brexit; in that speech he said that, during the London riots he had constituents tell him that the rioters was justified in looting etc but that he had to stand up for what was right and condemn them, just as he had to stand up for what was the right thing to do re Brexit. But the two were just not comparable examples. The rioters were a minority engaged in criminal activity, who were widely condemned by the majority within his constituency. He was not going against the grain by condemning them. Yet he deliberately used this example as evidence that he was a man of strong moral integrity, prepared to stand up against others for what was right, in order to justify his stance on Brexit, a democratic process which secured the majority (albeit a very slim majority) of the votes. He was essentially putting those who voted for Brexit in the same camp as those minority criminal rioters who committed arson, criminal damage and looting. I say this as a remainer. I had no problem with him standing against Brexit. But to imply the two were comparible in any way was wrong. Personally I find his speeches divisive. I don't think that they are helpful.

That said, I read about a Jamaican man who had lived in this country for 19 years (since the age of 11) and was being deported for a crime (robbery) that he had committed ten years ago. Since then he had had a baby and kept a clean record. I don't know all the ins and outs (I believe that the authorities cast doubt on his strong relationship with his six month old baby), but it sat uneasy with me. Firstly he had come to this country as a child. If he had committed an offence worthy of deportation, that should have been done after his prison sentence and not ten years later once he had had a baby. That seems wrong to me. And I also think it correct not to deport those who didn't have mobile access to their lawyers.

@AvoidingRealHumans

I'm sorry to hear that. That is exactly the sort of situation that should not happen in my view. That was morally wrong! You can't just allow kids into the country, let them grow up here and then kick them out years and years later. It's not right!

David Lammy's finest hour in my opinion. Bonnie Greer on Newsnight gave a great soundbite on this

Avoiding I'm sorry that your family have been put through that. Cases really should be done on an individual basis. If someone has broken the law, served their sentence, then continues to have a law abiding life, these people should be allowed the chance to continue to live in the only country they have known showing they are not a danger to society. Career criminals however I don't feel the sympathy for, but even in those cases I'm not sure deportation is the answer.
What has anyone gained from your husband being deported? Nothing. You and your poor children will suffer from this, I can't even begin to imagine how your husband felt being left at the airport with his whole life turned upside down. It makes me feel sick for you, your family and all the other people in this situation.
If you don't mind me asking, How is your husband now? Do you see him?

avoiding

do gooders

I never understand why this is used as an insult

Do people not want to do good?

But they think they are doing good when there not.

Thanks for the support everyone. I'm new to this site so not sure yet on how to reply individually etc.
We do have regular contact with him via WhatsApp and I have taken the boys over there to see him a few times. Flights are so expensive and because I work and they have school we havent been since 2017. It has put a massive strain on us all and relations between me and him are not good as I blame him for me being left to do it all alone as I have.
It's just difficult all round really, the boys don't know what has happened or why, I think they have just adjusted that this is normal for us but when they do ask questions I will explain what I can age appropriately.

20000 people are deported every year, Jamaica doesn't even feature in the top 10 of deported nations.

People ARE deported to Australia, just not in numbers to justify a single flight rather on regular flights.

No idea about rolf Harris though, I would happily see the back of him.

Avoiding you sound so strong, it really is an unthinkable situation. I send you all the strength and best wishes in the world. I hope you and your family can recover from this

I wonder how many people are deported who have spent most of their lives in this country?

The ones that have been deported are rapists and murderers so why would their families want to stay in touch? A bit different if it was a succession of minor crimes that put them away. Avoiding obviously I don't know why your dh was sent to jail and don't need to know but maybe your situation is different. Those that were deported committed very serious crimes.

*Lammy sees racism everywhere it's not even that hard to find, he has a real problem with white people.

He has such a problem with white people he married one!*

Maybe B is the reason for A!

Those that were deported committed very serious crimes.

This is not correct, as has been said many times on this thread.

Good point at PMQs about the blond boy born in NYC who took Class A drugs in his youth and conspired with a schoolfriend to beat up a journalist.

When do we deport him?

Some of the people committed serious crimes. We don't know what crimes the others committed.

People see such debates in a binary view without thinking deeply about them.

Sorry. Fair enough if they were minor crimes. Just read latest news--one says serious crimes and then later in same article some minor or one offs. Maybe they should only be deported if serious crime and long sentences in place then.

Just read latest news--one says serious crimes and then later in same article some minor or one offs

The Government and certain media outlets would have people believe that these are 'foreign born individuals who have committed serious crimes and need deporting'.

No critical thinking involved. No thinking about the people involved. Just a blanket policy of anyone - even if they arrived as a baby - and this was all they have known - could be deported after many many years to a country they have hardly lived in - because they committed a crime.

And people can either be for that or against that.

So sorry @AvoidingRealHumans

I think some of these decisions are despicable. In some cases, I agree there should be zero tolerance on these crimes. But if someone has been here since the age of 5, committed a non violent crime in their teens and never re-offended. And then went on to work and have a family here - I cannot help but think something is going fundamentally wrong with how our Government can justify this. I read non-stop about EU citizens committing serious crimes. Being released after some time. And then re-offending. Why is the deportation not being applied fairly? we all know why

@loobylou
The majority of deportations ARE,to EU countries.
The reason you don't hear about it is there is not a vested political interest.

@Buster72

Can you give me an example of an EU national that came over here at 5 years old, committed a non violent crime in their teens and then had a family here. And was then deported? I am open to admitting I am wrong here once these examples come flooding in