To think people expect too much from mothers of very small children?

[BellingtonWoots]

Well, parents, not just mothers, but mainly mothers. Because I'm starting to feel like this is the case.

DD is 18 months old. I went back to work when she was 9 months old, but did bits and pieces at home and KIT days from 6 months. DH works shifts, so I do most of the bedtimes, getting ready, breakfast, though DH does have days off where he does everything while I work. So DH isn't the problem here. It's more of a general thing, how other people see me/what society expects of me.

I honestly feel like I hit the ground running since DD was born. We had family and friends descend on us for daily visits for weeks after she was born, which was lovely in a way but very tiring and I didn't get to rest as much as I wanted. I had a section and although I recovered well, it was slow, and I still have pain and discomfort around my scar.

No sooner did things get into a routine with DD, and no sooner was she a little less dependent on me due to weaning, than it seemed I had to go back to work. Life ever since has been extremely busy, and all of a sudden she's 18 months old and becoming a toddler really

She doesn't sleep well, we're tired and we have very little time to ourselves. I would love to stay at home and go at her pace- trips to the park, reading stories- but I have to work. I have cut down my hours, but I simply couldn't afford to be a SAHM and I don't really know anyone who is- PILs already seem to think I'm taking advantage of DH by reducing my hours.

People also seem to think that I have loads of time on my hands now. SIL was always asking me to watch her four year old when I was off on maternity, even when DD was only six weeks old and I was still very sore. I had friends asking me for lifts, asking me to pick them up from places, because they knew I'd be home. People invite DH and I to things, and get ratty and offended when we say we can't come. It's not like we are the first in our circle to have children, in fact on DH's side we are the last. They are always asking DH for favours too (related to his job) asking him to come and do this or that at their house. Most of the time he says no, but still. We really do have such limited time together as a family, and even less as a couple, we are lucky to even get an hour in the evening because of DD sleeping badly, we don't want to give up half of Saturday running around to please other people.

My parents are very good, to be fair, and I remember as a child they would have done things like pick up my aunt who had a small baby to save her having to drive to Granny's 70th party, because "she'll be tired and it'll be nice for her to have the rest" and there was an understanding that small children were hard work, that sometimes they prevented people doing things, and although the women in my family all had jobs ranging from teacher to cleaner, there was a sense that staying at home for periods of time was totally normal and understandable as well

I don't know if it's just the circles I'm in now, but I feel like the pressure is now the opposite way- you're being selfish and self indulgent and weak if you don't make the baby fit in with your previous life, you shouldn't make any changes, you shouldn't fall into the trap of being a boring mum.

I've realised I have to put really firm boundaries in place and to ring-fence my time at home and with DH and DD, and my time on my own as well, or I could run myself ragged pleasing other people. I find it so hard being away from DD too. Luckily I can leave her with DH no problem, which I do at times, and obviously she gets childminded, and it's fine, but I don't WANT to leave her a whole lot more than that- I had her because I wanted to raise a child, and when I'm home from work I want to actually see her!

I (controversially) think that working is my sanity & Im much more productive at work. I do wfh one day a week & use that day to catch up on washing, etc. What I struggle with is the lack of evenings and of weekend time trying to get on top of diy or bigger admin jobs. There's always something that needs doing!

Very interesting post LisaSimpsonsbff I agree it's women in poorly paid employment, with little flexibility or ecomic power, who suffer the most in this scenario. Also agree that many employers are taking the michael and are expecting their p/t employees to do a full-time job.

As an aside (but kind of related) does anyone on here know of a family where the dad stays at home with the DC, or does p/t and the arrangement works well? There were three families of my acquaintance who did this and two of them are now divorced and the parents in the third family wrapped roles and the wife went back to p/t. It's so depressing. I would love to hear of a family where it's been successful.

And I was just waiting for someone to turn up and use that loaded and mother-blaming noun "martyr" when the op has stated she's referring to societal pressures as a whole and not just those arising from her immediate family and friends.

And agree that summer holidays for wohp are a nightmare and that's a prime example of where government policy could make a huge difference. I live in a country where there are lots of state approved and subsidised organisations running good quality sports and creative activities during school holidays, which are long (19 wks a year including Wednesday afternoons). It can be done but taxes are higher.

@Pegsinarow My dh was raised by a SAHD who then wfh & it was successful, rare in the 80s & 90s though. I would say the biggest benefit for me is that DH doesn't really see things as traditionally male/female & is very hands on compared to a lot of his peers. We share school/nursery picks ups & drop offs although I do more as have shorter hours. When I left my career & moved fields he never mentioned that childcare was more than my salary & he will share sick days. However I know he wouldn't contemplate being a SAHD. Ideally I would like us to get to a position where we could both do 4 days a week as I think everyone could benefit from some time without kids.

I also think women don't always help themselves. I work with someone who does all the pick ups & drop offs & has a long commute so is always rushing. I also know someone whose husband never changed a nappy. Another one makes food & portions it off, labelled etc so that when she is away her dc & husband won't starve 🙄

But... I don’t know what the answer is and I suppose it’s different for everyone.

we know what the answer is and it is two pronged:

1. employers to offer more flexibility for everyone (so the young employees who want to go to a festival in Australia to have 5 weeks off, the carers to have flexibility to make up hours for sudden absences etc)
2. equal parental leave possibilities and to encourage men to take it up

Also: you can't have it all. Nobody can. If you have children you have to accept that, at least for a period, things go by the wayside. I got sick and bloody tired of having to turn down out-of-work socialising when my two were small. And when they were big i got bloody sick and tired of all the people younger than me moaning about out-of-work-socialising being too difficult for them so it vanished or moved to lunchtimes. and saying to me "oh it's ok for you, you don't have to run home and do childcare… etc"

Much more workplace flexibility, much more understanding of SAHP and much more niceness in the world generally.

I felt no societal or family pressures at all but chose to not work

While i do agree with you OP, i expereince it from the other side. I have no childern, have a senior role that requires a bit of travleling (Which is no fun and exhausting) yet i get the questions and roll of the eyes when i say i am busy. I have actually had people tell me you can't be busy you don't have children. I am expeceted at a drop of hat to run and collect children or travel half way around the country so that it accomadetes naps etc. I don't mind doing it most of the time and love my friends children, it just hurts sometimes that they don't understand that while i don't have children, i do have a home to look after, a partner who is self employed which i also help with his business, a mother in law to look after and a dog and horses aswell. i get exhauseted and also dont get to sepnd quality time with my partner aswell I have learnt over time to build a hard shell and not let it get to me. I also have outsorced some things (Lucky i can afford to) and got a cleaner etc. This is something i would defo recommend to everyone as it helps take the burden off you. I also agree that comapnies are still reluctant to be open to ideas such as part time, job sharing etc.

I agree you need to start saying no. People can only take advantage of you if you let them! Stop being a doormat, speak up for yourself, tell people how tired you are, how hard work it is working with a toddler to take care of as well and disrupted sleep. If people want lifts, say no FGS! No one has ever taken advantage of me, because I don't let them. MN is full of women who won't stand up for themselves whining that others are CFers - yes they are and they will take advantage if you let them. Just say no!

My DH did part time for several years and it worked brilliantly. However so did I, so that may not be quite what you were looking for.

@Pegsinarow As an aside (but kind of related) does anyone on here know of a family where the dad stays at home with the DC, or does p/t and the arrangement works well?

disclaimer: i don't live in the UK.
I have never been interested in being a SAHP and am married to someone in hospitality so our plan was that i would go back to work after 6 months and he'd take over and do some pt or casual work.

In the end it didn't work out like that. I had DC1 and due to circs had no employment to go back to. So we decided that I'd take 18 months parental leave and DH would take the 2nd 18 months presuming I'd have found a job.

Instead it looked a bit difficult so we had DC2 18 months after DC1. I took the first 18 months of parental leave, got a job and went back full time and DH took the 2nd 18 months of parental leave. (so he had an 18 month old and a 3 year old)

It worked really well (and he did some weekend work to keep his hand in and get extra cash). It was bloody brilliant. And not at all unusual and he wasn't the only father doing kindergarten/school stuff.

Live by your own expectations! Society can be assholes.

Your running your life to the ground to please others but your not happy doing it?

When you start listening to what you want then things change for the better. I would bet that the "perfect mum" is not happy and it's only a matter a time before they break.

You are human! Do hell with others and their ideas...

I never had a problem with work, it was my safe and happy place. But I did feel utterly hopeless compared to other mothers who were whizzing about taking their kids and babies to all sorts of activities, including just having them there for normal life stuff like shopping.

I couldn't do much of that as I didn't have the confidence. I never went anywhere I couldn't jump in a taxi back from to change a dirty nappy.

The usual line on here is you just crack on, kids fit in with your life, you carry on doing stuff. But I wasn't able to do that, so I lived a very narrow life until DS was out of the tantrum years.

Even now I don't take him to supermarkets (cue Jarvis Cocker) if it can be avoided, and he's a big mature 9 year old. I'd happily stand up at work and make a speech to fifty people, but I couldn't change a nappy of breast feed anywhere other than my own home or my mums house.

We're all different.

Tag team sleep if you can. Dh does a night then you do a night. No point both being exhausted

society, especially the UK, doesn't make enough allowances for parents with DC under six, or the unavoidable fact that small DC tend to have lots of minor illnesses and often don't sleep very well.

I totally agree with this. We had no help and there were many, many days when I was too tired to drive safely. But the main barrier to work for me was that DC2 was susceptible to every bug going and we had no backup.

I agree.

Doesnt the saying go that people expect you to work like you're not a parent, and parent like you dont have to work?

locoroco andBrefugee great to hear examples of dad's staying at home and it working well (if not totally straightforward sometimes). And even better to hear the positive knock on effect of a son following his stay at home dad's example!

As an aside (but kind of related) does anyone on here know of a family where the dad stays at home with the DC, or does p/t and the arrangement works well?

My cousin did. His wife was a doctor and he an engineer. He was a sahp for his daughters and son. Their kids are in school now and both of them are back at work. His wife is one of the heads of the hospital and he is a manager himself overseeing the building of million dollar homes. They did have her parents that lived somewhat close. They lived about 30-45 minutes away but her parents also had grandchildren they were taking care of and a disabled daughter.

He made one of the rooms into a bit of a classroom/playroom. He taught them letters, numbers, words, writing, etc. They are well-rounded kids, good grades and involved in sports.

Again, really encouraging to hear Phoenix, maybe things are getting better? There still aren't nearly enough men going p/t though when their DC are small imho. Nowhere near equal numbers.

(Sorry for thread hi-jack op)

Sorry meant to add key question of why aren't more men going p/t to do childcare/school pick ups etc?

And people wonder why the birthrate is dropping like a stone. It’s just TOO. HARD.

(Obviously we need the global birthrate to drop, but that’s in places where people have six kids or more. It’s now 1.7 in U.K., replacement rate is 2.1 I believe?)

We both had mbas, super duper careers, insane hours, jobs that were NOT supportive of parenthood... (both my bosses were divorced and had sah ex-partners who conveniently did everything) and zero family in the country. I had to look at the situation and take a career break for a few years as the kids lives would have been shit, they’d hardly ever have seen us (first job given to me was to go away for two nights for a company shindig, while I was still mid-mat leave, while husband was on a two week work trip!!! I was like, I have NO ONE. TO TAKE. THE BABY.)

What shocked me was howwwwwwww patronising and dismissive everyone was of me as sahp! ‘Oh, i couldn’t do that, I’m really ambitious and hard-working’. I think people were actually pissed off when I walked back into the first job I applied for on a higher salary than I’d left on. And that I had a sipp and assets in my name.

Like people wanted me to be this downtrodden drudge as a sahp who was not only boring and lazy (!!!) but also financially and professionally fucked.

Unless we give people TIME to have kids then we will have a considerable aging population issue, unless we as feminist RESPECT the unbelievably hard work it is for many parents to bring up kids well with all the enrichment (playing, reading, healthy food, emotional attention), and make it valued, high-status work, men will never want to take it on. Why would they??

Return to work programmes and better subsidies are the only way forward.

One of the ways forward.

@Wexone yep lm often on the receiving end of this. People openly laughing at the fact l might be busy and suggesting CF plan which they get loads out of and majorly inconveniences me. 13 hours days and 5am alarm calls were draining last time l checked...

When I was a kid my mum and most of my friends mums worked - poor neighbourhood. But nobody was running kids round to lots of activities or trying to have a show home, or trying to look gorgeous.
You have to ignore capitalism and do what is important.

I totally agree with you. People don't seem to realise that our life has changed since the birth of our little one. Quite a few people have gotten quite annoyed when we say no to things.

Op it sounds like your friends are all trying to be perfect, which makes it harder. I have come to hate the phrase - living your best life. You don't get any medals for making it harder for yourself. Baking is for when you are retired. Opt for whatever makes your life easiest. Because the truth is small kids like simple things. Going to the park, posting a letter, etc. I used to let them choose a bus they could go on and rise as long as they sat reasonably quietly. Got off, "explored" where we were (sometimes just meant buying them a small chocolate bar in nearest shop), then took bus back. Young kids do not need exciting activities, lots of ordinary things are exciting to them. Also things Missouri do like giving them a cloth to clean the patio window.