AIBU to think taking a “Mental Health Day” is a bit wanky?

[Throwawaytheatre]

Honest disclaimer: I’m not trying to minimise mental illness... I’ve suffered with depression myself and attempted suicide three times since I was 16.

I work in management in a corporate environment. Over the past couple of years I’ve seen a rise in my staff (and I hate to say, it does tend to be the younger ones) taking what they call “mental health days”

Now if your mental health is so bad that you cannot get out of bed, come into work and do your job (or at least reduced duties) then you have my upmost sympathy. And when you come back, I would expect occupational health involved and a support plan to help you manage your illness.

But... you shouldn’t take a day or two off - which will have a detrimental impact on the rest of the team - just because you are bit tired or stressed. Especially as in my industry, you don’t work weekends and so are never more than five days away from your next day off.

I firmly believe that if you are capable of being in work, you should be in work. You are an adult, with contractual obligation and responsibility that you get paid to fulfil.

To further clarify; I’m talking about when members of my team call in sick for one day (often a Monday or Friday) and upon their back to work interview tell me that they were just “mentally exhausted” or “needed to recharge”, when I suggest the route of occupational health or support they don’t want that - they agree there is nothing we need to change to support them.

I had one young lady take three days sickness, go to Disneyland Paris which was plastered all over Facebook; and then upon return tell me it was a “mental health break”. She had not diagnosed condition and no intent on seeking any medical assistance she just “needed a break”

Prompted by a member of my team texting me this morning to say they will be having tomorrow off as “it’s been a stressful week, and [they] don’t feel they have fully recovered over the weekend.”

Feeling stressed or low is not a MH issue, it is normal.

it might be normal, and human, but they are still very much a MH issue!
We are not talking about being flustered because your Sunday roast is taking a bit long to cook, we are talking real stress.

People deal with it differently, but it's a real issue.

The Disney example is a massive piss take and an abuse of sickness absence I’d have been all over that

Feeling stressed and low is pretty normal, say the equivalent to a very mild cold or a little muscle ache after a hard gym session in terms of how common it is and how most people will just carry on

I’ve never taken a mental health day but l wish l could.

Long and tortuous history of mental health problems. 3 absences = disciplinary. I can’t take them even if l wanted to and in fact need to.

You need to look for patterns in absences. If for example Mondays and Fridays predominantly is it because they're hungover, stressing about coming back to work after some chill out time, taking a free holiday day via sick leave.

Regardless of whether an employee wishes to be referred to oh, I would make the formal referral as per policy then let them refuse and start performance improvement plans as soon as a pattern emerges or they're over the absence threshold.

Staying mh doesn't mean that your absence is never queried or that you cannot have the capability policy enacted.

*Feeling stressed or low is not a MH issue, it is normal.

Of course they're MH issues*

And therein lies the problem. It’s entirely normal to feel stressed, or low, or sad, of anxious when things are happening in your life that are difficult. Those feelings are part of a spectrum of emotions, pleasant and not so pleasant which are part of daily life.

Feeling low or sad doesn’t mean you have depression, feeling anxious doesn’t mean you’ve got an anxiety disorder, feeling stressed may be a perfectly appropriate emotional response to your circumstances. Every negative feeling doesn’t equate to poor mental health.

Annual leave is for normal living not illness and burn out

Yet theres a suggestion that annual leave shouldn't be taken if you just want a day off.

Presumably the children are in school during your working hours, or with a childminder/at nursery.

That's not a whole day to decompress though. You have just decided that works the part that you fancy off.

If you cant organise a couple of days off each (the poster I was answering has a dh and said she could use days off or annular leave to decompress) where you are child free at the weekend, for your mental health, but can manage a few hours when it means calling in sick, then youa re taking the piss.

In households, especially those with 2 adults, I dont believe for a minute that (across the year) you cant organise some personal downtime. But then can phone in sick and have a few hours childfree and it's all magically better again. That doesnt even make sense.

If it's so important, plan in down time.

If work is the problem and you dont take OH referral thata your choice.

Exactly. We shouldn't mdicalise life. If you are suffering from stress it is an illness. But there's a lot of experiencing and dealing with stress that can go on before that point.

Yes agree that feeling stressed and low is part of normal life.
If you expect to feel happy all the time, you are going to have a very tough life.

Sick days are for mental illness diagnosed or not. So if like someone on this thread you are a teacher and struggling not to burst into tears in front of your class, then it is appropriate to be off. You are unable to do your job properly.

But in any workplace a lot of people there will be feeling stressed or low. I worked with one woman who for a year went through a very messy divorce with custody fight. She was stressed and low for pretty much that whole year. That was not mental illness. It was a normal response. I have been a carer while working and have felt very low and stressed at work. Again a normal response to a difficult situation.

Mental illness is different from normal human emotions. Just as physical illness is different from the bodies normal response to everyday things e.g. being very achy after going on a long hilly walk when you are unaccustomed to it.

Labelling normal human emotions as "mental illness" is stigmatising off actual mental illnesses.
You can have normal human emotions and be unable to do your job because of the kind of job you have. But that is not mental illness.

I had a previous employer who referred any sickness at all to OH, including when the norovirus went round the whole office. It was a massive waste of time, which apparently came in because of a pisstaker.

That said, I think it’s really difficult to judge as whether the day is needed will depend so heavily on the person and the situation and I agree totally with PP that if it’s “fake” then a crackdown on mental health related will just result in the fakers switching to d+v or a bad cold while the people genuinely struggling are penalised.

I think I am having a mental health breakdown at the moment so although I feel guilty about taking a day off work on Friday part of me thinks it was justified on this occasion, my GP and the crisis team are involved right now and I couldn’t have functioned at work on just 2 hours sleep after not getting back from A&E until 5am.

That said a couple of months ago I had a day off work mid-week, I told my line manager I had woken up vomiting in the night but actually it was because I was just feeling completely overwhelmed and like my mental health was starting to slip. Actually just that one day off did help me to get on top of some of the stuff I was struggling with and I felt much more able to go back to work the next day and get on with things.

I’ll also say there are plenty of people at my work who will have random days off for a cold/ sore throat/ headache etc. I would usually dose up on paracetamol and work through those sort of symptoms and I very rarely have sick days for physical health symptoms. I don’t think having a day off because you feel stressed and overwhelmed is any worse than having a day off because you feel a bit achey and sniffly.

Unless you're also suggesting an automatic OH referral for the ad hoc physical illness days too them yes it is stigmatiaing.

Its total different. If its physical and requires one day, but happens often. Yes, it should be OH referral.

If its physical and means you cant face work, yes OH referral.

If its, say, a broken leg and you are ok but cant physically get in, then OH may not be required. Might be, but might not be.

@CrazyKittenSmile You say you have crisis team involvement so please ignore anyone talking about people taking days off as negative. The crisis team are only involved where there are very real mental health issues, not just because someone feels a bit sad.

No wonder there's still a stigma around mental health.

Thats what annual leave is for. CFers. The genuine case will be very tiny.

Kirkman
On this we agree. OH referrals should be on a case by case basis. However the poster I was replying to suggested even one mental health day should mean a referral which is singling out mental health.

There is a stigma around mental illness precisely because of this kind of nonsense.
I meet people who talk about having an anxiety disorder because they get anxious at situations that nearly everyone does for example.
But how many people do you meet talking openly about the time they were psychotic?
The reality is that it has become trendy to talk about normal human emotions as "mental health", while I think actual mental illness has become more stigmatised.

There is so much misinformation on this thread, it’s ridiculous.

Having a MH crisis doesn’t automatically mean bed bound, unable to exist. And it really does highlight the ignorance and stigma.

MH is like physical health - we all have it and sometimes we will be at our peak. However other times we will all feel a lull and need to reciprocate. For some, weekends aren’t that time - children, life commitments, difficult relationships, households to manage, etc.

I run a MH network in my workplace, and guess what - it’s filled with people with diagnosable mental health problems talking about their past or current battles.

And FWIW I’ve never taken a sick day (thankfully haven’t need it) but I certainly have caked up in the morning when my schedule is cleared and asked for a TOIL day when I knew I wouldn’t cope at work. And do you know what I do? I get some self care (whether that’s going to the gym, getting my nails done, taking a book to a restaurant). I’m not going to agonise in bed when I know I need to be using coping mechanisms.

Genuinely appalled by some of these comments. Much along the lines of "pull yourself together" and "cheer up". Dear god, I thought there was a better understanding of mental health these days.

I am mid 30s and have worked for 12 years after finishing uni. In all that time I have probably had about 6 days off due to physical illness. I have suffered from bad anxiety and depression on and off for about 5 years. Thankfully on the mend now but still have my moments.

As a result of my anxiety I have taken 2 mental health days (separately) in the past 3 years. The first I did not have the guts to be honest about what was wrong as I didn't want to be judged so said I had been physically sick. My employer is actually quite understanding about mental health and is encouraging openness and for people to talk. I was honest about the second occasion and they were fine with that and offered any extra support I might need to help me with it.

I took the day because my anxiety was so bad when I had gone to bed the night before, I had barely slept and felt even worse when I woke up. I genuinely felt I could not have coped with the requirements of my job that day. I would have been in tears and unable to focus. Because of that my anxiety would have been worsened because I would have been worried that I was not getting on with my job. I decided to take a day to feel sad, to calm down and to let my brain rest. Just that one day did me a lot of good. Obviously one day is not sufficient to fix everything but even a small break can help.

I could not have requested annual leave as our company policy is a minimum of a week's notice. You don't know a week in advance that you won't be coping on a specific day. Sometimes it can creep up on you unexpectedly or something can trigger it. You can't always plan for that.

Does that make me a snowflake? Does that make me a piss taker? I really don't think so. I think it means that I am trying to self manage my mental health and it has worked for me.

So maybe some of you people should think twice before being so judgmental and pious!

Do you honestly think it is normal to feel happy all the time? Because it is not. When shit things or stressful things happen, you are supposed to feel stressed or low.

Absolutely, but that doesn't mean they're not MH issues.

Headaches and colds and stomach bugs are also part of life, but that doesn't make them any less of an illness. You wouldn't tell someone with a migraine or the shits to come into work "because that's just life" so why is it okay to say the same thing to someone with MH issues?

But how many people do you meet talking openly about the time they were psychotic?
I think this is more to do with the fact that psychosis is much rarer and more misunderstood than anxiety and depression and can be much more debilitating. In the hierarchy of "acceptable" mental illness psychotic disorders and personality disorders are basically at the bottom. I've been saying for years we need a really mainstream and successful celebrity to reveal they have schizophrenia before we can make any headway with the stigma around it.

She was stressed and low for pretty much that whole year. That was not mental illness. It was a normal response. I have been a carer while working and have felt very low and stressed at work. Again a normal response to a difficult situation.

Why isn't it a mental illness? Depression and anxiety are two conditions that are often triggered by "normal" life events. I'd say if someone was upset and low for 12 months, regardless of the cause, they were struggling with their mental health.

At what point does "struggling" become something we should worry about? I don't think people should have to "struggle" until they're forced into a MH crisis.

As an ex employer of 30yrs in a very stressful working environment there were always patterns of behaviour from some members of staff. I was always amazed that the staff who had major issues going on at home often had the best attendance, I usually had to force them to take time off. Whereas recently the newer, younger staff members would have sick days for breaking a false nail.
The regular Monday no shows were always alcohol related, social media and pissed off members of the team would dob them in.
Fridays were usually weekend break. One long term member of staff was quite adamant that annual leave was only for foreign holidays and that taking it for doctors appointments was not right.
I sorted the problem by removing sick pay to fund decent pay rise. It was a win win for everyone since sick days impacted on the whole team.
Mental health is a real problem. I was diagnosed with severe depression after DS was born. It was the culmination of a number of life changing events in a short space of time that tipped me over the edge. Work was actually my life line, it was the one constant where I could escape the feeling of dread I experienced out of work. I dreaded the end of the week when I had face all the intrusive thoughts that were blocked out when I was busy. For me the routine of work is therapy. Time out allows me to reflect too much.

No wonder there's still a stigma around mental health.

I know. Some of the responses on this thread are shocking.

MH problems are still so misunderstood.

Do you honestly think it is normal to feel happy all the time? Because it is not. When shit things or stressful things happen, you are supposed to feel stressed or low.

Absolutely, but that doesn't mean they're not MH issues.

I agree with this. Instead of looking at MH from a diagnosable view, look at it in a spectrum. All us can been completely, mentally well or be on the other side and hit rock bottom. But we all exist on that spectrum. Just like physical health.

I’m sure many of you would take a day off if you had a really bad cold or an injury that meant you didn’t feel able to work. Why would MH be any different to that?