To wish this 13 year old girl the best of luck and hope she is successful?

[Whatisthisfuckery]

A 13 year old girl is taking Oxfordshire County Council to court over its transgender toolkit for schools. According to the toolkit students who identify as trans can choose with which sex they get changed, or with whom they share a room on over night school trips.

This is madness, right? Potentially letting teenage boys get their kit off with the girls or share a dorm? When my DS has been on residentials he’s not known in advance who he’s sharing a room with, I just assume, naively, that the rooms will be single-sex.

Kids who are trans need to be supported and made to feel comfortable, but surely that shouldn’t come at the expense of everybody else?

AIBU to hope this 13 year old girl wins her case and gets this nonsense out of schools? As I understand it it’s not just Oxfordshire that would be affected. There are toolkits like this throughout the country, so if it’s ruled unlawful in court all of them will have to come down.

Sorry for the DM link.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7971457/Girl-13-launches-High-Court-fight-block-councils-advice-trans-pupils.html

I’ve also found an article in the Oxford Mail, for those of you who understandably don’t want to click on the DM.

www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/18213788.oxfordshire-girl-seeks-judicial-review-trans-toolkit/

...including the fear of being filmed without their knowledge.

Yes. And don't forget tiny spy cameras that could be installed in girls' showers and changing rooms. Does anyone think teenage boys are too noble to do that?

I really hope she wins.

Oxford is becoming a very unpleasant place for women to work. I can only imagine what it’s like being a teenage girl there & having to put up with this nonsense.

Areyou that's awful, your poor DD.

Areyoureallylistening, I’m so sorry your daughter, and you, are having to go through that.

Forgive me if I’m being dim but re: “third spaces” - wouldn’t it have to be four spaces because otherwise it’s the same scenario but just in different room/s?

Surely as long as everything is open and everyone consents then there doesn’t need to be any problem

But it's not open. Parents are not to be told if a transgirl is sharing with their DD to protect the trans child's privacy. And schools are being told that if a child announces their trans status at school that parents are not entitled to be told.

This issue is being treated totally differently to any other. All the rules of safeguarding are being ripped up. Children (whether trans or not) cannot be protected if sex is ignored like this.

And as for consent, lobby groups are teaching that girls who object to males in their loos or changing rooms are to be told they're bigots and may even be threatened with legal action.

Being trans is very fashionable too. A girl who objects to a transgirl in the changing room may find herself ostracized.

This whole ideology has gone so far - and its effects are profound. Most parents have no idea how far - and that's deliberate.

Lobby groups and local authorities tell us again and again how vulnerable the trans child is. But no one seems to care about the vulnerability of girls, who are going thirsty at school to avoid the gender neutral toilets. Single sex provision is very important for the dignity, privacy and safety of girls, but no one in authority seems to care about them. They certainly haven't done impact assessments on these policies.

Amazing thing for her to do. I hope she takes it all the way. And .... she WILL win. In the end, she will

YANBU

Do they sleep in with the boys and is open to bullying etc or do they sleep with the girls who will be uncomfortable with that?

They sleep with the boys. If there's bullying then address it. Who's doing the bullying? Yep, the males. It's not unacceptable to sell women down the river because the men can't behave

Forgive me if I’m being dim but re: “third spaces” - wouldn’t it have to be four spaces because otherwise it’s the same scenario but just in different room/s?

Only if a transgirl and a transboy were both on a trip. If you had that situation, you'd just need two extra rooms (and any further children who share that identity plus natal sex could of course share with the same identifying child, too).

It would of course make the trip slightly more expensive for everyone, but costs can come in ways other than money. I think this would be the preferable solution. Inclusion, but without anyone's own rights being infringed.

But that's seen as transphobic. Anything but blanket acceptance that someone can change sex by declaration is, even though that's clearly nonsensical and untrue.

Rachel97 “ I have a 3 week old and by the time he's a teenager, I totally expect same sex spaces to have pretty much been phased out, and why not?”

Do you know why they exist now?

Tbh I meant it in a general “third spaces” way, take toilets for example. It makes me think about it every time someone mentions it because surely it’s just the same scenario all over again? Third spaces = biologically born men and women together in what should be (imo) sex-segregated settings. So wouldn’t there have to be four spaces, not three?

Oh god Areyou. I am so sorry. Your poor DD.

@ThatLibraryMiss Every word of your post is spot on.

I'm not saying AT ALL that there aren't genuinely transgender people, but I'll be interested to see what the rate is in ten years or so when the spotlight's moved on to the next behaviour.

And, more to the point, how many physically mutilated people in their 20s and 30s will be regretting their choices. The terrifying thing about this "trend" is that it can have irreversible effects, even moreso than scars from cutting or the difficulties of shaking off eating disorder psychological narratives.

It's already happening, but the trans community stifle any stories of "detransitioners". Blaire White did a brilliant video about it . The poor young woman in the video is stuck with a man's voice for the rest of her life because of hormone treatment. It's really worth a watch.

Britney third spaces aren’t usually considered acceptable so fourth spaces would have the same problem.

Supporting a transgender teenager is one thing. But allowing all teenagers to choose which dorm etc. they want to be in (which is what it actually means) is a recipe for disaster!

Areyoureallylistening That's awful, I'm so sorry for you and your dd. The narrative by trans lobby groups is that transgender children are at risk of serious bullying, yet it's absolutely not true in my experience. Between the secondary school I teach at and the secondary school my dc attend, the trans children are elevated to 'most popular' status as soon as they 'come out'. I hope your dd is okay, and that more people see him for the bully he is.

Rachel97, I'll be gentle here as I'm assuming that you are very young from the username, sleep-deprived and in love with your new baby boy (congratulations!).

But surely, you realise that some things physical, biological things differ between males and females? That we therefore divide facilities on sex, when it isn't legal to do so on other characteristics (except sometimes age, for the sake of physically small and vulnerable children)?

I mean, you've just given birth. You know which sex has periods and gets pregnant.

Can anyone tell me how widely distributed these "Toolkits" are? I'm just reading the latest one and it's giving me the rage.

a child was born male but identifies as female
Do they sleep in with the boys and is open to bullying etc or do they sleep with the girls who will be uncomfortable with that?

^^ the answer is to crack down hard on any suggestion of bullying by the boys. Not assume male aggression as an unchangable given and expect the girls to budge up.

All this seems to be being done on the assumption that transgirls are gay, isn't it?

I mean I just might have let my dd share a room with her gay friend.

Gay? If they fancied the girls they’d be straight, I.e. attracted to the opposite SEX.

@Areyoureallylistening

Your poor DD😢 (&you).

I’m listening, I just haven’t got a fucking clue what can be done. As any attempt just seems to result in being silenced.

Plus it’s not about gay or straight but the different bodies. I’d happily changed in front of a lesbian because she’s female, the same and me, and her body isn’t intrinsically a threat. I wouldn’t change in front of gay men, because even though they have no interest in me sexually they are the opposite sex.