To not want to waste annual leave on unwell child?

[coffeeforone]

DH & I work full time and DC (age 1 and 3) go to nursery. If they are ill we alternate staying at home with them. I can do my job from home but my employer doesn't really encourage it, if DC is unwell and its my turn then I usually say I'll work remotely, doing as much as I can and make up the work in the evening once DH gets home. I don't think they are keen on this as I've done it 3 times since October and I don't get the impression they like it. They say 'ok, as a one off' but try to make alternative arrangements for next time. My alternatives would be:

1. emergency unpaid leave (legal right I think). Can't really afford lots of these days, and I don't think they'd like this either.
2. call in sick myself (I would get paid but it's a bit fraudulent). I'm never Ill myself if that makes a difference.
3. last minute holiday (which could potentially mean needing to cancel booked holiday or asking for unpaid leave

There are no alternatives are there. What would your employer ask you to do?

Fantastic policies like Norway's and Sweden's only work if the attitude lying beneath them extends to work/life balance and caring responsibility more generally. At my workplace we have incredibly family-friendly policies on par with the anecdotes of Scandinavia but parents by and large take the piss, leaving the non-parents picking up the slack. If we're going to adopt the worthy approach that there's more to life than work, it needs to be wider than just parents.

That's just how it goes though, that's what annual leave is for confused

So are you guys able to take annual leave at the drop of a hat / phone call shock ?

In a situation like DS being sick. I couldn't just call in and say 'fancied an impromptu day off today' and take it as annual leave, but when I call and say 'I can't come in today' then my boss puts it as AL. I have also said 'DH is home with DS today and he's not going to be well enough for nursery tomorrow so I'll need to take leave' and again that's fine. If there was a big deadline coming up I'd work in the evenings to make sure it was still hit and there are certain work events where it would have to be DH who was off because me not being there isn't an option.

I'd mix it up.
Personally if you are never ill, I'd call in sick yourself sometimes and then do a bit of work to ease my guilty conscience.
Sometimes do what you have been doing- work from home. Sometimes take a day or two of annual or parental leave.

Where i work is happy for us to WFH to look after a child, we have unpaid childcare days too if we'd rather do that

Amend mine, we actually get 35 hours paid urgent leave for dependants

I would present your employer with a record of all the hours you do per week including those outside of 9 to 5 . Remind them you have had only one sick day off yourself in 4 years.
Explain that if they prefer you to use A/L or unpaid leave if a child is sick it will be just that, No work undertaken at all that day as you will be caring for your child.
As pp said flexibility should be a two way street.
No wonder you are so looking forward to your holidays, your work life balance is awful due to the expectations of your employer.

Flexi, work a bit extra and build up time when busy to take off later, also comes in useful for appointments and school daytime events. Or make up the time after being off.

I wouldn't be happy knowing one of my employees is 'working' from home, looking after a sick infant. You won't get much done, will you. Suck it up and take the leave, when you have kids you have to make sacrifices

It's frustrating but that's parenting for you.

Either take it unpaid or take is as holiday, the choice is yours. I'm not a fan of leaving sick children with childcare either unless it's a live in Au Pair.

@TheBouquets they do. It’s called annual leave or unpaid leave.

Have you accrued any overtime OP? Can you take time off in lieu?
Or, just don’t mention that your child is ill next time you WFH. As long as you do 8 hours it shouldn’t matter whether you work 9-5 or 8-12 and 4-8?

@niugboo - I always prioritised a sick child over going into work. I did not have annual leave in the job I was in so I just had to absorb the loss of income. These jobs are now called "zero hours contracts". It is hard but it had to be done for the sake of the child.
I was not receiving CSA/CMS either so it was a financial hit.

Absolutely @ScreamingBeans

The NUMBER ONE reason for the gender pay gap is that woman (Rather than men) are still lumped with doing the vast majority of childcare (or working out a solution when a professional childcare provider cannot for whatever reason provide the care).

That fact, however, does not mean I condone a PP’s suggestion that the OP just phone in sick when she herself has said she is never sick herself. That is dishonest.

Get your dh to take some leave or work from home ?

We are required to take annual leave for this. Working from home or using sick leave to cover a family member's illness would not be seen as appropriate.

It's really hard while they're in those years of getting sick so often, I know. Hopefully you will find it eases off as they get older.

@TheBouquets as it should be. Why should your employer absorb the costs? Your kids.

Get your dh to take some leave or work from home ?

It says in OP that they alternate.

I would present your employer with a record of all the hours you do per week including those outside of 9 to 5 . Remind them you have had only one sick day off yourself in 4 years.
Explain that if they prefer you to use A/L or unpaid leave if a child is sick it will be just that, No work undertaken at all that day as you will be caring for your child.
As pp said flexibility should be a two way street.
No wonder you are so looking forward to your holidays, your work life balance is awful due to the expectations of your employer.

Thank you! This is how I've realised I feel about it as I'm so flexible with them! I've been in the office from 8am until 7pm today (just left) and didn't take a lunch break. I will again work tomorrow and Sunday evening once the DC are asleep. I also answer emails and log in when I'm holiday etc. I worked an illegal amount of unpaid time during my maternity leave. I don't get paid overtime but I do get a good fixed salary which I think they think covers everything. I'm going to discuss with my manager next week and ask them to confirm their position and preferred option.

I also answer emails and log in when I'm holiday etc. I worked an illegal amount of unpaid time during my maternity leave

Well I’m sorry but more fool you in these instances.

I have 5 carers leave days a year. I don't have children so I'm deciding how to use them.

Glad my post was useful . Just a thought, makes sure they know that you and DH alternate. This isn't about being a mother in your case although this type of working culture usually impacts women more. If you also take an approach of wanting to find a solution I guess it will help but really depends on their sense of entitlement. Some companies seem to think decent salary means they own you. Good luck!

OP - if your on a good salary, doesn’t your contract say you have to work whatever hours are necessary to fulfil your role.

In my profession, we have decent salaries compared to most - we are set financial / hourly targets that we should Bert and have fire office hours in our contracts. However, the contracts also state that we work the hours necessary outside of that to fulfil your role.

That’s generally the trade off - a decent / relatively high salary but no ability to claim overtime for hours worked outside of the contract. Anyone working “to rule” would not get very far in the profession at all.

Other than public sector jobs, I don’t really know anyone who is salaried that has the ability to claim overtime (although lost of my friends have similar professions). A few have flexibility and / or wfh, but that’s not common. You’re being paid to be in the office and go a job, not to be at jobs. The feeling is generally that if you have sick kids you take annual leave (one of its purposes is appointments, waiting for workmen etc - it’s not just guaranteed beach time) or the less favoured option of unpaid leave.

Lying and claiming to be ill yourself is fraudulent. I just do not understand the entitled attitude of some people - why should your employer and work colleague have to carry the bag just because your kids are sick. They’re your kids. You should be responsible for them.

• targets to meet and core office hours - sorry for typos. Too late for commenting really..,

yabu to regard time spent caring for children when they are ill is a 'waste' of annual leave.

children do get ill from time to time. when they are ill they mostly need parental loving care.

a full time job requires your time for generally less than half the day merely 230ish days a year. your annual leave allowance is sufficient to cover a couple of weeks away plus ad hoc days as needed to cope with the ebb and flow of normal family life - these will not all be nice days of holidaying but will include days of waiting in for the plumber, attending funerals of relatives too distant to qualify for compassionate leave, caring for sick children and dozens of other calls on your time that can't be scheduled for the weekend.

a decent employer won't punish an employee for having to take time off at short notice when a child is sick (as pp said make sure they know you are only taking your fair share split with dh). a decent employee will not take the piss by trying to get around the inescapable facts.

pretending to be sick yourself is lying, effectively stealing and should be treated as Gross Misconduct.

working from home may sometimes work for some jobs but doing this too often isn't going to be sustainable and there will be a lot of things you can't do when not in the office and it's not unreasonable for an employer to be unhappy with this as a main strategy.

use your annual leave for this.

if you then end up with insufficient annual leave in-hand for family holidays come summer, you can book that week as Parental Leave (which is unpaid but needs to be agreed in advance not just taken ad hoc).

if you are unlucky enough to have a child whose health is so precarious the days off work for caring begin to overwhelm the available leave you and dh may need to reconsider whether both working ft is sustainable.

Annual leave isn't guaranteed time lying on the beach with a cocktail

At my place of employment, it’s called Rec Leave (Recreational Leave) so I expect to use it for exactly that!