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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to report this mum to child protection?

164 replies

RZX44 · 04/02/2020 15:45

Serious thread, looking for real advice. I think I need to contact social services but Im worried about the consequences for the child.

My son 13 has come home and told me that his mate, lets call him Jack, has been off school for 4 days because his mum has been too pissed to drive him in (he lives a long way away.) Today Jack has come to our house after school because his mum hasnt showed up to collect him. Apparently she normally drops him to school and picks him up, thoroughly pissed. Jacks parents are separated and dad is a waste of space I gather and only last year passed Jack back to his mums care, fully aware of her issues. So Jack is either gets a lift with his pissed mum, if shes concious, else he cant make school.

But school is Jacks constant. If I tell someone would he be removed from his mum? And maybe the school too? Hes a really nice lad too, so sad. Not saying anything doesnt seem an option, but saying something and who knows what happens. Can anyone advise?

OP posts:
Mittens030869 · 05/02/2020 09:47

I’d also report her to the police for regular drunk driving. If she does it frequently then presumably they can organise catching her in the act. Dreadful woman.

That's true, . Yes it's very hard to feel sympathy for someone driving regularly when drunk.

LolaSmiles · 05/02/2020 09:58

Mittens030869
I see what you mean. I thought when you said they might not be aware of issues that you meant they'd not have noticed anything, rather than aware of some concerns but miss the wider information. Smile
The attendance would be flagged up and he'd probably be being monitored closely for his attendance, with differing amounts of input depending on the school and what they know.

RZX44 I'm so glad you reported it. You've done the right thing and whatever happens the chain of events is not your fault and you shouldn't feel any guilt. If mum can manage with extensive support then brilliant. If she can't and the child has to be temporarily removed then that is a result of his mum's actions, not yours.

drspouse · 05/02/2020 10:12

You can't be anonymous from the parent or you can't be anonymous from social services?
I've reported a safeguarding concern to school (Y1 child and nursery age sibling getting into the back of a car without car seats) and though school knew who I was, they didn't say they'd tell the parent who reported it. (Though technically this is safeguarding, it's on the level of "speak to parent" not "call social services", and it could have been any parent who witnessed it as it was outside school; I only know who the Y1 child was because DD said "That's Marmaduke! Hello Marmaduke*!")

*name changed to protect the innocent.

Original poster
RZX44 · 05/02/2020 11:33

drspouse - not entirely sure, I think it's something like if school reports a concern it has to be put forward by a named individual. Wouldn't necessarily have had to be me, but perhaps staff don't particularly want their name on a safeguarding referral either. In some circumstances no doubt that could put their own safety at risk. Not suggesting that's the case here, but best to be cautious I guess.

OP posts:
LolaSmiles · 05/02/2020 11:47

Staff wouldn't have an issue with their name to a concern. We have to put our name to any concern we raise. It means the designated safeguarding lead knows which staff to follow up with if needed and/or appropriate.

In your situation it's the difference between:
Safeguarding lead records "Mrs Blogs spoke to me and said..."
And
Safeguarding lead passes concerns on saying "someone said to me they were worried..."

School knowing is good though. They can keep a pastoral eye on the child as well as a legal duty safeguarding one.

FizzyIce · 05/02/2020 12:04

We had something similar at my dd’s school.
Won’t go in to the in’s and out’s but the school really stepped up and the teachers brought this child into school every day and and took her home again (or to wherever she was staying )
Hopefully your child’s school will be just as supportive so this lad doesn’t have to miss out on his one constant

Hobbesmanc · 05/02/2020 13:19

Some great advice from a number of professionals here. I work in Social Care and have been involved in several safeguardings- and what this post evidences is the gaps that exist at all levels round what constitutes safeguarding and the pathways to take.

I was alarmed by a couple of well meaning but very misguided posts though. You can't just take in a strange child and keep them. Also I'm not sure giving them phone numbers and codes is sensible- we need to discourage kids from secrecy.

Finally school isn't his only constant. He has a mum. I assure you that most kids of alcoholics might hate the drinking but they love the parent and they would do or say anything not to be removed.

MrsGolightyly · 05/02/2020 14:03

School knowing is good though. They can keep a pastoral eye on the child as well as a legal duty safeguarding one

If you speak to a social worker about your concerns, one of the first things they do is speak to any agency involved with the child. The child's school would be one of the first they would speak to. Therefore, there really is no need to inform the school.

FamilyOfAliens · 05/02/2020 14:47

Children’s Services always want a first hand conversation to prevent any distortion of the facts. If someone has concerns, Children’s Services are the experts in deciding how to proceed. It is not your job to make these decisions.

It’s not your job to tell me what my job is, actually. And the SWs I work with would much prefer to speak to someone who knows the child, is able to provide details that would enable them to check if the child is known to them, can provide a context and so on.

Sometimes parents come to me with concerns and say they don’t want to give their name because they’re worried about repercussions from the family.

And of course I haven’t posted that people should always go through the school. You’ve made that up.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 05/02/2020 15:55

This is urgent... Please report to social services... Mash.

Curious about samphire is absolutely right... Go straight to social services... They are the lead agency to investigate... Not schools... They will advise school and investigate further while they're sorting out what needs to happen now.

This will be prioritised... As she could well be driving him home drunk now.

I dealt with a lot of these cases in child protection... And it would go to the top of the pile as the child is in imminent danger if close to going home time.

If necessary ring out of hours social services ... We often used to come into overnight referrals with parents driving drunk in the mornings (anonymous referral when someone saw their neighbour stagger in drunk at 4am)... In the past we had police breathalyse them as they were getting into their car... Once a chap had 4 kids in car just after 8am and was 2 and a half times limit and reeked of drink.

Don't do the assessment yourselves leave that to professionals. What happena or not subsequent to this is not your responsibility.... It is... If you don't report!!

Do keep hold of the kid if a pissed parent turns up to collect!!

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 05/02/2020 15:59

Also as someone said... By going to school you risk it being left on someone's desk to ring social services....this does happen...

We had a young girl being raped by her dad... School didn't report it to social services as the safeguarding officer was on a child protection course elsewhere for several days... Hmm

MrsGolightyly · 05/02/2020 16:08

It’s not your job to tell me what my job is, actually. And the SWs I work with would much prefer to speak to someone who knows the child, is able to provide details that would enable them to check if the child is known to them, can provide a context and so on

Yes, I've already said that the social worker would need to speak to any agency involved with the child to provide details etc. @FamilyOfAliens

Sometimes parents come to me with concerns and say they don’t want to give their name because they’re worried about repercussions from the family Okay.

And of course I haven’t posted that people should always go through the school. You’ve made that up Did I say that? I can't see that I did.

I see that @IamtheDevilsAvocado agrees with me.....

Go straight to social services... They are the lead agency to investigate... Not schools... They will advise school and investigate further while they're sorting out what needs to happen now

FamilyOfAliens · 05/02/2020 16:09

We had a young girl being raped by her dad... School didn't report it to social services as the safeguarding officer was on a child protection course elsewhere for several days...

Schools have to have at least two DSLs. We have four - three of them work full time and are senior leaders. Ofsted would take a very dim view of a school relying on one DSL who may or may not be on site to deal with a safeguarding concern raised by a parent.

PurpleDaisies · 05/02/2020 16:12

We had a young girl being raped by her dad... School didn't report it to social services as the safeguarding officer was on a child protection course elsewhere for several days...

That should never happen. All staff should have a number if staff they could contact or an external number in the event no one is available, or failing that know they need to contact the police.

I’ve worked in some crap schools but they’ve all told all staff that’s what needs to happen every time we’ve done safeguarding training and the numbers/people to call were up in the staff rooms.

PurpleDaisies · 05/02/2020 16:14

When I say all staff, I mean everyone including receptionists, cleaners, dinner ladies, caretakers, cooks, etc etc etc. Not just teachers and TAs. And everyone gets the instruction not to leave the building until you’ve passed your concern on to the right person.

Your situation @IamtheDevilsAvocado should never, never happen.

LolaSmiles · 05/02/2020 17:38

The child's school would be one of the first they would speak to. Therefore, there really is no need to inform the school
It depends where it gets placed in the social work caseload.
It doesn't harm to inform school as well as reporting to social services if it means in the meantime someone is keeping a closer eye on the child. It doesn't take much for the safeguarding lead to say to the head of year "I've had a concern raised about X's well-being and welfare. Could you keep an eye for me". It's easy to overlook the impact of smaller interpersonal support. In my experience when other services are stretched to the limit (be it CAMHS / social services / support for SEND etc) school staff being able to keep an eye and offer a bit of TLC goes a long way in the meantime.

Mittens030869 · 05/02/2020 17:53

In my experience when other services are stretched to the limit (be it CAMHS / social services / support for SEND etc) school staff being able to keep an eye and offer a bit of TLC goes a long way in the meantime.

^Definitely. Why should it be a case of either/or? The school see the child every day, so if they're alerted, they can also contact Children's Services?

MrsGolightyly · 05/02/2020 18:30

The point of an individual talking to a social worker about their concerns, is that the social worker hears it first hand.

I see it posted on Mumsnet time and time again that you should talk to the child's school if you have concerns. If you have concerns talk to a social worker. They are the lead professional in Safeguarding.

Original poster
RZX44 · 05/02/2020 19:49

Stand down folks...I contacted both. I do think the school should know going forward. And I do/did think child protection needed to know asap. So all avenues covered.

OP posts:
LolaSmiles · 05/02/2020 19:50

It's usually people saying to speak to social services AND school because they have different roles supporting safeguarding, or people saying if they're unsure then the school safeguarding lead may be able to offer advice.
I've only seen talk to school as a single piece of advice when there's been more pastoral concerns that border safeguarding concerns rather than clear safeguarding concerns.

Original poster
RZX44 · 05/02/2020 19:50

As an aside, school phone line closed at 4...child protection was still picking up

OP posts:
PanicAndRun · 05/02/2020 20:15

We had a young girl being raped by her dad... School didn't report it to social services as the safeguarding officer was on a child protection course elsewhere for several days...

This should never have happened. Schools should have more than one DSP(we have 3 with different roles in the school so someone should always be around) , if none are available or contactable by phone(there is one at our school that we can ring/message even if she's not in) then we can forward our concern to a member of SLT. If none of them are available we have a direct number for SS to call ourselves, the number is also if we have urgent/serious concern and wish to make a report ourselves.

FamilyOfAliens · 06/02/2020 07:21

I understand how people who may have been involved in a safeguarding role in the past can be unaware of the high level of safeguarding expertise in other agencies outside social services - schools and healthcare for example.

We are involved now at every level. Only last week I attended a joint strategy discussion with police and social services to decide whether a child should be made the subject of a protection plan. Social workers accept that schools play a vital role in this whole process and that they are equally skilled professionals. In some ways it’s a worrying development - we’re educators after all - but social workers understand that joint working is in the best interests of the children, thank goodness.

MrsGolightyly · 06/02/2020 09:34

The Children Act of 2004 sets out clear guidelines for every agency involved with children, on the importance of working together to safeguard children. This legislation sets out how all agencies and professionals should work together to safeguard and promote children's welfare and protect them from harm.

So as far back as 2004 agencies have been working together. This included attendance at Case Conferences and being involved with children who were deemed at risk and placed on the register (now known as part of a plan).

Children still fall through the net, sadly, so it is still work in progress.

FamilyOfAliens · 06/02/2020 11:32

The difference now being that school staff can be found guilty of a criminal offence if we fail to act on safeguarding concerns.