...to report this mum to child protection?

[RZX44]

Serious thread, looking for real advice. I think I need to contact social services but Im worried about the consequences for the child.

My son 13 has come home and told me that his mate, lets call him Jack, has been off school for 4 days because his mum has been too pissed to drive him in (he lives a long way away.) Today Jack has come to our house after school because his mum hasnt showed up to collect him. Apparently she normally drops him to school and picks him up, thoroughly pissed. Jacks parents are separated and dad is a waste of space I gather and only last year passed Jack back to his mums care, fully aware of her issues. So Jack is either gets a lift with his pissed mum, if shes concious, else he cant make school.

But school is Jacks constant. If I tell someone would he be removed from his mum? And maybe the school too? Hes a really nice lad too, so sad. Not saying anything doesnt seem an option, but saying something and who knows what happens. Can anyone advise?

blowmebaloney
Immediate as in knowing for a fact the parent is drunk, seeing them drunk to the point of not being able to care for the child, hearing what's going on in the house etc, not believing them to be drunk because they've been drunk in the past.

Otherwise the call is "I'd like to report severe concerns about a child to you and a police officer to go round to the house. The parent is drunk and the children are in immediate danger. What sort of danger? Well the parent always drinks and we know they drink drive... No I'm not there... No I've not seen the parent today, no I don't know they're at home or that they're drunk, but I want you to send someone round".

Blimey lola - my reading is that the concern here was immediate danger.
That is it for me now, I am afraid I will leave you to read the thread and debate it with yourself!

Op does Jack have your mobile number? If not, depending on how well your ds gets on with him, either get your ds to give it to him or next time you see him, try to have a chat with him without your ds there, even if he has just popped to the loo/empty washing machine etc - you may need to prime him first!

Then give him your number, and let him know that you’ll always take his call/messages so far as possible (albeit not if driving/in the swimming pool/in a meeting etc) and pick up and act on messages when they get to you.

If his mother notices he can say that it’s an extra way to contact your ds about homework/football/whatever as his phone isn’t so reliable.

You could even work out a code so that if he is worried about being in s car with his mother drunk driving he could text you to ask your ds about the geography maps homework which would trigger you calling the police for example. Or whatever he suggests he needs...

No safeguarding issues here but several of my dc friends have my number while I have theirs and my dc have their mums’ numbers - rarely used but useful occasionally particularly if somebody is running late or the weather turns nasty. And that’s just for boring everyday normal stuff.

For Jack, having the phone number of a trusted and trustworthy adult could make a massive difference to him...

I’ve been a designated safeguarding lead in a school for 12 years

I’ve worked in child protection. If a parent speaks to you and you speak to a social worker, the information is second hand. If someone has concerns they should be encouraged to speak directly to a social worker. You should know this as a designated safeguarding lead @FamilyOfAliens

If children’s services are spoken to, they would then contact the school and any other relevant agency, for further information. Then you have the opportunity to pass on your information, @FamilyOfAliens

Yes, I knew a lady who killed her daughter by driving her to primary school while drunk at 8am. The other parents knew what was going on for a long time but felt it wasn’t their place to step in. I was same age as the girl and often think about her and the things she has missed out on. You need to flag this boys case with professionals

I’ve worked in child protection. If a parent speaks to you and you speak to a social worker, the information is second hand. If someone has concerns they should be encouraged to speak directly to a social worker. You should know this as a designated safeguarding lead @FamilyOfAliens**

What do you mean by “worked in child protection”? As a CP social worker?

None of the DSL updates I attend nor the safeguarding training I deliver to school staff states that parents should be encouraged to contact children’s social care before sharing concerns with the school.

I would both ring Childrens Services and speak to school. School may have a lot of information that you are not aware of and may be able to give further weight to your discussion with Children’s Services.

blowmebaloney
I'm just pointing out that a 13 year old not being collected from school with reports about a parent being drunk often (Vs we know they are drunk now, have seen the behaviour and there is a situation right now) wouldn't be an immediate home visit most of the time.

Do I think there's a substantial concern about a 13 year old being in a house with a parent who is regularly drunk? Absolutely. Alcohol issues are usually a team placed around the family with support for the parents and children.

It's just unlikely that the police or social services have the staffing capacity to attend a house on the grounds of "parent is often drunk and we have concerns about the child's welfare, but right now we have no idea if they are drunk".

It's not the OP's job to be trying to get involved with a stranger's ability to parent.

It's just unlikely that the police or social services have the staffing capacity to attend a house on the grounds of "parent is often drunk and we have concerns about the child's welfare, but right now we have no idea if they are drunk".

And that attitude is how children are left, slip through the cracks.

You seem to misunderstand how safeguarding works. It is not incumbent upon anyone to prove anything. You report suspicions, thngs you have been told or have seen. People with more information collate such reports and make decisions based on that, not a single phone call.

NOT making that call puts kids at risk. That's why safeguarding exsts as it does. Undermining it with "Oh, but you don't know what really goes on / don't wast their time" is precisely the attitude that all of the NSPCC adverts etc are trying to eradicate!

For shame!

Exacrly “curious*.

Safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility but in our training I always stress that it’s not up to everyone to investigate or assess whether their concern is valid. That’s someone else’s job.

Just tell someone - it may seem minor to you, but it could be part of a picture of much more serious concerns.

None of the DSL updates I attend nor the safeguarding training I deliver to school staff states that parents should be encouraged to contact children’s social care before sharing concerns with the school

Safeguarding protocol states that anyone with concerns about a child’s safety should speak to a social worker at Children’s Services. Nowhere does it say you should go through the school. If someone does speak to the school first, then you must tell them to speak to a social worker There are reasons for this @FamilyOfAliens.

Children’s Services always want a first hand conversation to prevent any distortion of the facts. If someone has concerns, Children’s Services are the experts in deciding how to proceed. It is not your job to make these decisions.

CuriousaboutSamphire
You've been really selective in quoting my posts there.

My comment about it not being the place for the OP to be involved in a stranger's parenting was in response to other posters telling her to take the boy in, offer him a bath, can you not have the child, why don't you go round to the parent and talk to them about the situations. I've said that it isn't the OP's job to be doing that and she needs to speak to social services.

The reply about police/social services not coming out immediately was because people were saying to call the police and get someone out to the house there and then when nobody has a clue what the home situation was like. Ultimately police are not going to be in a position to not attend the growing list of crimes to visit a house because the parent has been drunk on other occasions. Again, I have said this should be passed to social services who wouldn't necessarily do an immediate visit that day for the same reasons but would investigate and put in appropriate support.

I have repeatedly stated that what needs to happen is that the OP needs to inform the relevant professionals who can investigate and support.

So save your "this is how children fall through the cracks" and "for shame" crap.

I have repeatedly stated that what needs to happen is that the OP needs to inform the relevant professionals who can investigate and support. Think about why I may have misunderstood your posts!!

The main tone of what you post is discouraging. I didn't deliberately choose those quotes to misrepresent you, they were just 2 that leaped off the page, were absolutely contrary to best advice. There are others I could have used.

They overshadow anything else you say. That's the shame of it!

CuriousaboutSamphire
And yet they were a specific reply to a specific things said by other posters.

To read them whilst overlooking the context in which is was said is not my issue.

It's really worrying how many people on MN safeguarding threads suggest posters do nothing, tell posters to get into what's essentially emergency care or foster care arrangements, talk to potentially abusive or neglectful parents instead of reporting, mind their own business because they might be having a tough time, and help them with cleaning etc. It's totally reasonable to very clearly point out this is not for anyone to get involved in stranger's home situation when there are professional services who specialise in it and getting involved could do more harm than good.

Could you imagine if OP did go round to the child's house to chat, the mum wonders why a stranger has turned up, asks the child what he's said or infers something has been said and then responds by keeping him off school / distancing him from friends / lashes out physically or emotionally? The child is at greater risk if people follow bad advice on here.

I had to call social services about a concern I had out of school hours and they honestly said that their out of hours social workers are for the crisis situations so a general concern (which is similar to the OP) would be picked up by the team as part of normal concerns. Much as I'm sure it makes people feel good to say police/social services should be out at the house immediately, the reality is that at the point the OP was posting they didn't know what state the parent was in and there's simply not the resources to divert people from situations where the reporter knows there is an immediate problem in favour of a series of concerns but the reporter doesn't know the state of play.

Those replies, as with any post on a thread, should be read in the context of the ideas I was challenging.

I wouldn't assume that the school are aware of the issues, as alcoholics tend to be good liars, and chances are that Jack's mum told the school that he wasn't well, or that she believed he was in school so he must be playing truant.

If it had ever been obvious that she was drunk then the school would have reported her for drink driving. So you really do need to call SS.

I have MH issues (PTSD due to childhood abuse and now Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) and I have spells when I drink too much. But I manage it carefully and my DH steps in to support me. When it got out of hand a few years ago, I reported myself to SS. But no one who doesn't know me would guess that I have any issues at all.

As this mum is obviously drink driving, this can't be ignored. SS will investigate and, as long as this mum cooperates and gets herself help to deal with her issues, her DS won't be taken into care. She doesn't sound as if she has much of a support network and the dad is worse than useless seemingly, so you really will be doing both her and her DS a favour by reporting your concerns to SS, though she won't think so right now.

If I knew someone was driving while drunk, like right this second, I’d be calling the police right this second as they’re an immediate danger to everyone.

Agreed. But the OP won't be the one seeing it, as she's only hearing about it from her DS. And the mum might not be obviously drunk, as some people are very good at masking it.

So if it's flagged up as an issue then the school will watch out and report her to the police if necessary. (Even better would be to stop her from getting back into the car.

But school is Jacks constant. If I tell someone would he be removed from his mum? And maybe the school too? Hes a really nice lad too, so sad. Not saying anything doesnt seem an option, but saying something and who knows what happens.

You are not responsible for what happens next. You know there’s a child at risk and your responsibility is to report it. It doesn’t necessarily make much difference if you go direct to social services or through school. They talk to each other. The key thing is to speak to somebody today if you haven’t already reported it.

Mittens030869
Generally by secondary school we wouldn't necessarily have specific concerns regarding the parent unless the child or a friend disclosed.

What's more common is that staff notice changes in the child, behaviour in the child, a pattern of absences or an increase in sporadic absence (regardless of what reason the parent gives).
Staff would pass their concerns to the designated safeguarding lead. The designated safeguarding lead would monitor and pass on information to social services in line with their training. Social services would triangulate information about the family from multiple sources, investigate, act as appropriate for the information they have available.

For example, I was concerned about a student. They seemed increasingly tired, withdrawn and other such changes. I passed those concerns on. Months later staff were informed the child was on a child protection plan. We rightly don't know the details as it's on a need to know basis.

Absolutely report to school and SS.

I’d also report her to the police for regular drunk driving. If she does it frequently then presumably they can organise catching her in the act. Dreadful woman.

@LolaSmiles I get what you're saying. That's why I said that posters shouldn't assume that the school are aware. Although if this boy is missing as much school as he appears to be then I suppose that would be flagged up? But then again, the mum would probably provide a plausible explanation.

That's obviously why the OP needs to report immediately, particularly in view of the drink driving.

Update - in the end I decided to do both, have notified school and the local First Response team (child protection.) Interestingly, I told the school I wanted to remain anonymous and so they replied that I would need to report to First Response then...if the referral goes through school it can't be anonymous apparently.

I hope you're absolutely sure if your facts!

Good to hear you’ve reported it!

I hope you're absolutely sure if your facts!

She doesn’t have to be. She only has to honestly report what has happened.