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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be heartbroken

524 replies

MonnaLIza · 01/02/2020 12:35

It's a beautiful, sunny day. I am healthy. I have a new job, which I love. I also love my DH and kids and I am loved by them. We own a good home, a 'machine for living in', with room for everyone, and we can afford food and occasional treats such as days out and holidays. We bake bread, make muffins (which sometimes turn out to be edible) and go support our local football team. We are all reasonably educated and articulate, fully tax solvent and in socially meaningful professions (that's me and DH, our kids are in education).

And yet, there is a definitely low mood in the house today, and this is not just because I am recovering from clinical depression. Today, even if nothing seems different, is the first day of my life as an 'outsider'. I am no longer a EU citizen in my own country but officially an 'other'. An immigrant.

I am now somebody who needs to prove their right to be here, in their own home. Another layer of bureaucracy, more practical struggles. But it's the change in my 'status' that breaks my heart. I am no longer part of this country which I have made my home for the last twenty years.

Yes, I have 'settled status', an invisible document, which I have obtained in a much less easy way that the government would like you to think (for instance I could not use my iPhone to register as it only worked on android phones). An invisible document which proclaims to be valid until it's valid. No doubt in the future there will be more hoops to jumps, more papers to fill and i just hope these hoops and jumps will come when I am fit, young and tech-savy enough to be able to jump them.

I will, of course, snap out of this, but at the moment I am, I think not unreasonably, heartbroken.

And my biggest heartbreak is not for me - Katie Hopkins compared immigrants to cockroaches for our resilience and, ultimately, I am resilient. When I realised the industry I was in was getting destroyed by Brexit and austerity I got another job. I have qualifications and skills. I will survive in my immigrant-coackrochy ways.

No, my biggest heartbreak is for Britain itself, for the people who have been interviewed on TV who are celebrating Brexit without being able to articulate one single benefit of it to their life. I have lived in this country long enough to have seen another Britain, a multicultural, vibrant, accepting country, where having an accent and coming from somewhere else was considered an exciting, interesting thing. I can still see that in some enlightened places, which are increasingly engulfed by the darkness of 'patriotism'.

I guess I am heartbroken because I had not only imagined a brighter future, I had seen how great things can be, and now the lights are going off.

We are discussing moving to Scotland or Ireland. It would be easy for me and my DH but harder on their kids. They are born in England, they are English. What to do - stay and resists? Move?

I do not know yet. I will know soon, we will talk and make plans.

But today I am heartbroken.

OP posts:
OnlyFoolsnMothers · 01/02/2020 14:05

ClownsandCowboys yes I have 2 bosses, my husbands cousin and my aunt all having applied and been approved. Yes it was charged at first and due to an outcry it was made free- correct and testament to The British public!
If your argument is we should still have freedom of movement that’s an opinion but if your issue is with the procedure then no imo it’s simple and we must have a way of knowing peoples rights.
I also have a husband who’s nationality is from outside the EU and I saw the hurdles he jumped
to become British and gain rights- not comparable!

ILoveAllRainbowsx · 01/02/2020 14:06

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HowlsMovingBungalow · 01/02/2020 14:08

I agree with getting a grip.

Sorry to hear your teen is poorly @callmeadoctor Flowers

BigPinkFlower · 01/02/2020 14:08

Why are you now unwelcome as a Jewish person in Italy? It is because of uncontrolled immigration. How can you think it is anything else?

Google may be your friend

Crinkle77 · 01/02/2020 14:10

Oh Jesus Christ! Yes it's worrying and no one what the future holds but to describe it as being heartbroken is ridiculous.

MonnaLIza · 01/02/2020 14:10

"The op isn’t being treated badly." - ok if you want a short list:

  • I have been shouted at for speaking to my mum on the phone in Italian.'You are in England speak English!'. This on a street so I was not not on a train or in an enclosing space subjugating people to Milanese dialect.
  • I have been asked if I was Polish. When I said no Italian I was told 'Ah that's ok'.
  • I was told that there is a lot of people like 'the likes of me' in this country.

Of course there will always be some worse off than me in the world.I have total empathy and understanding for those who are having a hard time. And if you read my first post you will read that my biggest sadness is not about me, ultimately.

And again, it is not a race to the bottom and it looks like quite a few of us are feeling sad today because of Brexit. Something in which we believed in deeply has died. A dream. An ideal. Yes, we are sad.

But maybe this is the moment of sadness that we need to regroup and tomorrow we will fight again, a little more determined and a little stronger.

OP posts:
ILoveAllRainbowsx · 01/02/2020 14:11

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This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

HyacynthBucket · 01/02/2020 14:12

This is so sad OP, and I hope your mood will lighten when you come through the depression. I am heartbroken too today, at all we have lost as a country, and I simply do not believe the promises made about our future outside the EU. You are welcome here, and hope you can stay and feel secure, along with all the other brilliant Europeans who have made this country home. There is a letter today in the Times to the people of the UK from President Macron of France - worth a read though sad. as well. Thanks for your post OP and for expressing what has not been talked about enough to do with Brexit.

aroundtheworldyet · 01/02/2020 14:16

So op those things happened to you between last night at 11 and this morning?

Or never happened before the referendum results.

You are not even making sense now. People are racists. Your birth country is full of them. They are here and everywhere.

People have said things to me for the colour of my skin - my gender - my accent. because people are cunts often. In every country.

I really am struggling to see your point now. You’re upset. I get that. But you really need to chill the fuck out

Rottnest · 01/02/2020 14:22

I was last in the UK 20months ago and recall Brexit being discussed frequently. As a dual national I can come and go, thankfully. At that time anyone I asked about Brexit just about nobody could articulate any real advantage tp ;eaving the EU, the most usual comment was 'We want democracy, we want our country back'. None actually convinced me Britain would be greater out of the EU. I concede that I no longer live there and will only visit, but I feel sorry for Britain right now, and I certainly feel for those who have lived, worked, and paid taxes etc for 20 or 30yrs. I certainly wish Britain well, and hope a breakup of the union can be avoided.

ginandnappies · 01/02/2020 14:25

Move up to Scotland. We know how to do it.

aroundtheworldyet · 01/02/2020 14:27

SCOTLAND IS IN THE U.K.

Are the people up there so stupid they think they’re going to leave anytime soon.
You had your referendum, like we did. We all have to suck up the consequences now.

MonnaLIza · 01/02/2020 14:30

Thank you @hyacinthbucket, I will look for it :)

Thank you also to all who have expressed understanding as it makes me feel a bit less alone (fam had to go out today and I so wish I was not on my own today of all days).

Thank you also to all who have expressed polite and articulate disagreement as it has helped me to see the matter from a different angle and gain some distance.

I am aware that in the great scheme of thing, I am really lucky, but that applies to all of us here on Mumsnet, having access to the internet, living in civilised, war-free zones and having the luxury of time to write and discuss about our problems and issues.

I am going to move on with my day and I am going to stay positive - this has really helped so thank you all for the therapy!

OP posts:
Eyewhisker · 01/02/2020 14:31

The point that the Brexit voters don’t seem to understand is that they voted because they don’t want people like my family and the OP’s family around. And yes, that makes us feel totally unwelcome in a place we had thought was home. And uprooting a family is not easy.

To then reply that (i) you never really belonged here anyway as you were always a foreigner or (ii) others (Windrush/Jews/cancer patients etc) have it worse (whataboutery) is tone deaf.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 01/02/2020 14:34

I don't think I'm the only remainer seriously considering a move to Scotland.

My granny was from Edinburgh and I'm definitely thinking about moving up when I retire in two years. Even if Independence doesn't happen, it seems more in key with my political thinking. I did think about it 20 years ago but chickened out.

AFirst · 01/02/2020 14:34

I can’t see how this will impact you OP and I don’t understand why you are ‘heartbroken’. People, like Katie Hopkins who are obnoxious and xenophobic would be obnoxious and xenophobic regardless of whether we left the UK or not. They are no different today than they were yesterday. Giving so much weight to the words of someone like Katie Hopkins is crazy.

You mention your children’s ‘Englishness’ and how it would be hard for them to move to a Scotland or Ireland. That silly. There may be legitimate reasons that a move would be hard for them but being English won’t be one of them.

I know brexit is going to have a negative impact on a lot of people but I don’t see how you are one of them.

I think you are being dramatic. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Dontunderestimateme · 01/02/2020 14:34

But maybe this is the moment of sadness that we need to regroup and tomorrow we will fight again, a little more determined and a little stronger.

I think that is a very good way to look at it OP. I am sorry you are being made to feel this way. I only hope that things do work themselves out, and it is not as bad as it seems at the moment.

aroundtheworldyet · 01/02/2020 14:36

@eyewhisker
How the hell do you know why most brexit voters wanted out. I’m not one. But I wouldn’t presume the only bloody reason is so some Europeans with jobs that have been here for 20 years and pay taxes and have children get chucked out.

They might not want more people in. But that’s totally different.

MonnaLIza · 01/02/2020 14:37

"You mention your children’s ‘Englishness’ and how it would be hard for them to move to a Scotland or Ireland. That silly. There may be legitimate reasons that a move would be hard for them but being English won’t be one of them." - would you mind elaborating a little on this as it is not hundred percent clear to me what you mean?

OP posts:
MonnaLIza · 01/02/2020 14:38

Eyewhisker:

*The point that the Brexit voters don’t seem to understand is that they voted because they don’t want people like my family and the OP’s family around. And yes, that makes us feel totally unwelcome in a place we had thought was home. And uprooting a family is not easy.

To then reply that (i) you never really belonged here anyway as you were always a foreigner or (ii) others (Windrush/Jews/cancer patients etc) have it worse (whataboutery) is tone deaf.*

YES! YES! YES! (like Meg Ryan in when Harry met Sally). Nailed it!

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 01/02/2020 14:39

I understand, OP. I too feel European and that will never change. I voted remain and am sad for the result but, I just can't get behind the mindless thugs - on both sides to be fair - who use 'brexit' as an excuse to whip up discord for no good reason other than that they can't help themselves.

We're beyond that now. We've left. We actually don't know how it's going to be and, in my view, however much we dislike our politicians, they have to now formulate a plan for the Commonwealth and it has to work for us all.

I'm sad to read that you've been told to 'speak English', I can't imagine what sort of knuckle-dragger would have that kind of mentality, but clearly they do. They're in a minority and the rest of us despise that attitude.

I'm English by birth but with my family roots everywhere in Europe and I'm proud of my mixed heritage.

I know it's difficult and that spiteful comments really stick in our minds but, for every one brain-dead moron out there, you will have met a thousand or more who are fully accepting of you as 'one of us'.

This will pass. Thanks

TheGreatWave · 01/02/2020 14:39

The OP is allowed to feel however she wants, she doesn't need to get a grip.

aroundtheworldyet · 01/02/2020 14:40

Most people I know who voted brexit think the eu is a bloated beurocracy
And they don’t want to end up like Italy
We aren’t far right. If people think Boris Johnson is far right then you have no concept of what far right means

And I didn’t vote Tory either!!

HazelBite · 01/02/2020 14:42

I am in my 60's, my parents lived through WW2 and we were all anxious in the 70's to become part of Europe to be especially (in the case of my parents) a united Europe, and I remember how emotional My DM became when we joined Europe.
I was saddened last night to hear people letting off fireworks at 11pm, I was disgusted to see the antics of Farage & Co in the European parliament.
However it is what it is and apart from voting to remain there was little else any of us could do!

MasakaBuzz · 01/02/2020 14:42

@Eyewhisker

“The point that the Brexit voters don’t seem to understand is that they voted because they don’t want people like my family and the OP’s family around.”

What complete and utter claptrap. How dare you presume to tell people they don’t understand why they voted for Brexit, or for that matter tell them why they did.

  1. It’s non of your damn business why I chose to vote for Brexit.
  2. You are wrong.