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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be heartbroken

524 replies

MonnaLIza · 01/02/2020 12:35

It's a beautiful, sunny day. I am healthy. I have a new job, which I love. I also love my DH and kids and I am loved by them. We own a good home, a 'machine for living in', with room for everyone, and we can afford food and occasional treats such as days out and holidays. We bake bread, make muffins (which sometimes turn out to be edible) and go support our local football team. We are all reasonably educated and articulate, fully tax solvent and in socially meaningful professions (that's me and DH, our kids are in education).

And yet, there is a definitely low mood in the house today, and this is not just because I am recovering from clinical depression. Today, even if nothing seems different, is the first day of my life as an 'outsider'. I am no longer a EU citizen in my own country but officially an 'other'. An immigrant.

I am now somebody who needs to prove their right to be here, in their own home. Another layer of bureaucracy, more practical struggles. But it's the change in my 'status' that breaks my heart. I am no longer part of this country which I have made my home for the last twenty years.

Yes, I have 'settled status', an invisible document, which I have obtained in a much less easy way that the government would like you to think (for instance I could not use my iPhone to register as it only worked on android phones). An invisible document which proclaims to be valid until it's valid. No doubt in the future there will be more hoops to jumps, more papers to fill and i just hope these hoops and jumps will come when I am fit, young and tech-savy enough to be able to jump them.

I will, of course, snap out of this, but at the moment I am, I think not unreasonably, heartbroken.

And my biggest heartbreak is not for me - Katie Hopkins compared immigrants to cockroaches for our resilience and, ultimately, I am resilient. When I realised the industry I was in was getting destroyed by Brexit and austerity I got another job. I have qualifications and skills. I will survive in my immigrant-coackrochy ways.

No, my biggest heartbreak is for Britain itself, for the people who have been interviewed on TV who are celebrating Brexit without being able to articulate one single benefit of it to their life. I have lived in this country long enough to have seen another Britain, a multicultural, vibrant, accepting country, where having an accent and coming from somewhere else was considered an exciting, interesting thing. I can still see that in some enlightened places, which are increasingly engulfed by the darkness of 'patriotism'.

I guess I am heartbroken because I had not only imagined a brighter future, I had seen how great things can be, and now the lights are going off.

We are discussing moving to Scotland or Ireland. It would be easy for me and my DH but harder on their kids. They are born in England, they are English. What to do - stay and resists? Move?

I do not know yet. I will know soon, we will talk and make plans.

But today I am heartbroken.

OP posts:
MonnaLIza · 05/02/2020 13:24

@WhereShallWeMoveTo just a bit of Futurist prose.

OP posts:
MonnaLIza · 05/02/2020 13:28

Apologies I am on my phone travelling for work and between the dodgy WiFi, my typos and autocorrect my posts aren't exactly clear. Sorry will try later on tonight.

OP posts:
Dragonembroidery · 05/02/2020 14:24

But you haven't got as much right to live here as anyone.
Just like I don't have a right to live in USA or Italy or Mongolia.

Songsofexperience · 05/02/2020 17:28

But you haven't got as much right to live here as anyone.
Just like I don't have a right to live in USA or Italy or Mongolia.

She does though because that right was safeguarded as part of the withdrawal agreement.

Songsofexperience · 05/02/2020 17:35

Few people have any romanticised notions of assimilating and belonging to the country or the culture. They are there temporarily as a paid guest, nothing more.

True for some but immigration means different things to different people. If you're going to spend 20-30 years in a place it becomes more than a transaction.

Songsofexperience · 05/02/2020 18:01

To finish on this (yes, i am bored on my commute with nothing better to do!) I think the problem with a purely transactional approach to immigration, the 'paid guest', is that the place where you work is ALSO the place where you live. Who lives purely for work all of the time and that's it? No one- unless you're an indentured slave, as happens too often in the Gulf. One's quality of life is hugely important and if you don't have rights in the place you inhabit, you will be miserable. You won't really be able to build a life. Are those the best workers? If not, why then even let them in at all? Either we treat people well and integrate them or we don't let anyone in.

Aria999 · 05/02/2020 19:24

These discussions are always so depressing. I wish people would stop saying that as nothing has gone wrong yet, there was never anything to worry about.

Nothing has really actually happened yet. Come back in 3 years and see if those comments still apply.

FishCanFly · 05/02/2020 23:03

But you haven't got as much right to live here as anyone
We had all the rights when we came. Now those rights are being stripped away. So excuse me if i don't feel much joy.

Bluerussian · 06/02/2020 03:24

I'd really like to know who Nigella Faragella is. I googled and nothing came up.

WhereShallWeMoveTo · 06/02/2020 03:37

One's quality of life is hugely important and if you don't have rights in the place you inhabit, you will be miserable. You won't really be able to build a life. Are those the best workers? If not, why then even let them in at all? Either we treat people well and integrate them or we don't let anyone in.

I don’t disagree, (well maybe I do somewhat) but surely what we are aiming for is a sensible, mutually beneficial middle ground?

Let’s welcome and encourage the people with the skills we need and want and have the right to say no to those who don’t.

lonelyplanetmum · 06/02/2020 05:47

Just wanted to say who is more welcome here:

  1. MonnaLiza (and the many other EU born posters on this thread who have thankfully chosen to be here). People bringing proficiency in two or more languages. People with the drive, personal skills , outward looking nature, sense of adventure and enterprise to move countries. People with problem-solving, decision-making capacities, tolerance, self-confidence, curiosity, social and global awareness etc etc.

OR

  1. Some bald ageing inward looking Faragit middle-aged or older bloke like my FIL with limited life experience.

Just an example.

The thing is the world has globalised. End of. Millions of people are internationally mobile.

Cities all over the world London, New York, Sydney,Rome, Hong Long, Delhi,Shanghai are made up of millions people who were born elsewhere.

•All the polls say that a majority now- millions and millions and millions of people in the U.K. wanted to remain.

•The majority of people in this country did not vote for the current government. Yes millions did, but added together a greater number of millions did not want them.

It's ok to be sad- I am too. But There are millions and millions and millions of people here who welcome EU citizens,value their contribution and welcome them.If any EU born is feeling down you are not alone. Why not channel that feeling into proactivity- join a local pro EU group or even just have a day out in vibrant international London.

Remember the biggest, most passionate pro EU movements are now in the U.K.

The EU posters on this thread are welcome far more than people like my father in law who sites muttering his narrow minded minority Daily Mail views.

Star
MangoFeverDream · 06/02/2020 08:08

Cities all over the world London, New York, Sydney,Rome, Hong Long, Delhi,Shanghai are made up of millions people who were born elsewhere

Good luck getting citizenship in Shanghai. You will be forever a foreigner, as will your children.

But sure, you can live and work there if you have something to offer. Frankly I think it’s the better way. I think many other non-Western countries are like this as well.

Dragonembroidery · 06/02/2020 09:23

@Bluerussian
m.youtube.com/watch?v=ze2KzMm7xE0

Nigella Lawson, and by extension women like her.
Rich, coiffed and nauseating.

WhereShallWeMoveTo · 06/02/2020 09:51

There is a population of over 26 million in Shanghai with an official figure of around 150, 000 of foreign nationals residing there. London or New York it ain’t.

I don’t know about Delhi but I suspect it is incorrect to say that there are millions living there who are there legally as foreign nationals or immigrants.

lonelyplanetmum · 06/02/2020 10:10

According to google India is both a top source and destination for international migration.

Over 5.2 million immigrants have moved to India, making it the 12th largest immigrant population in the world. (2015 figures).

Guess a fair few of those are in Delhi.

The point is the world has globalised and Monna's mobility is welcomed by millions both here and internationally who understand that.

WhereShallWeMoveTo · 06/02/2020 10:58

India hosted 5.1 million foreign nationals in 2019 out of a population of 1.37 billion. That’s roughly 0.4%. It might be 12th largest in terms of size of expat community but it’s actually tiny when represented as a proportion of the population as a whole. I also wonder how many of those will eventually be able to take citizenship should they wish to?

I’m contrast, the Indian diaspora is the largest in the world at over 17 million. I’m
not sure whether that includes Indians who have taken citizenship elsewhere or just migrant on temp work visas, but either way India is not a good example to use if you want to show that the flow goes evenly both ways. Let’s not forget that a fair few of those foreign nationals in India will actually be Indians who have ‘gone home’ for a life of relative luxury on their British or Canadian passports wit their dollars and pounds in their pockets.

In fact where the UK is concerned almost
nowhere is a good example to use. The majority of Brits who leave the UK permanently to take up citizenship somewhere else tend to go to English speaking countries where there is most definitely no freedom of movement and the entry criteria is very rigorous indeed.

lonelyplanetmum · 06/02/2020 11:23

The point I'm making is that Monna should know millions of people in this country welcome her presence and contribution.

(On international mobility stats are here. U.K. is in the middle.)

www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/which-countries-have-the-most-immigrants-51048ff1f9/

ASureSign · 06/02/2020 11:25

Some bald ageing inward looking Faragit middle-aged or older bloke like my FIL with limited life experience

Ageist and sexist 💪🏻💪🏻 ....and since when having 'limited life experience' been a measure of whether someone is worthy of being a citizen of a country. That sounds very snobby and elitist.

MangoFeverDream · 06/02/2020 11:26

The point is the world has globalised and Monna's mobility is welcomed by millions both here and internationally who understand that

However, it should be understood that they have no rights to permanent residency in these places and will never have a chance to become citizens.

It’s an important distinction. One that is not understood much by Westerners. Particularly those that consider themselves ‘global citizens’

lonelyplanetmum · 06/02/2020 11:32

Ageist and sexist

Yes my FIL is both those things - and racist too.

Just wondering do you welcome* Monna here Asuresign*?

Buttercup54321 · 06/02/2020 11:50

You are being over dramatic. Get a grip. Or swap your nice life with someone in Syria and see how you would like that.
Everything is good in your life so stop being a snowflake and appreciate what you have!!!!!!

RunForBurritos · 06/02/2020 11:56

Here we go... " get a grip"/ " snowflake"/ " some have it worse ".
We should have a MN bingo card for unhelpful, ridiculous responses.
I' d like to add " snap out of it" and " give your head a wobble" to the list.
Any other suggestions welcome.

FishCanFly · 06/02/2020 12:24

Buttercup54321

Biscuit
Porkeypine · 06/02/2020 23:07

Good luck moving to New York or Sidney without fitting a rigorous criteria too!!!

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