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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be heartbroken

524 replies

MonnaLIza · 01/02/2020 12:35

It's a beautiful, sunny day. I am healthy. I have a new job, which I love. I also love my DH and kids and I am loved by them. We own a good home, a 'machine for living in', with room for everyone, and we can afford food and occasional treats such as days out and holidays. We bake bread, make muffins (which sometimes turn out to be edible) and go support our local football team. We are all reasonably educated and articulate, fully tax solvent and in socially meaningful professions (that's me and DH, our kids are in education).

And yet, there is a definitely low mood in the house today, and this is not just because I am recovering from clinical depression. Today, even if nothing seems different, is the first day of my life as an 'outsider'. I am no longer a EU citizen in my own country but officially an 'other'. An immigrant.

I am now somebody who needs to prove their right to be here, in their own home. Another layer of bureaucracy, more practical struggles. But it's the change in my 'status' that breaks my heart. I am no longer part of this country which I have made my home for the last twenty years.

Yes, I have 'settled status', an invisible document, which I have obtained in a much less easy way that the government would like you to think (for instance I could not use my iPhone to register as it only worked on android phones). An invisible document which proclaims to be valid until it's valid. No doubt in the future there will be more hoops to jumps, more papers to fill and i just hope these hoops and jumps will come when I am fit, young and tech-savy enough to be able to jump them.

I will, of course, snap out of this, but at the moment I am, I think not unreasonably, heartbroken.

And my biggest heartbreak is not for me - Katie Hopkins compared immigrants to cockroaches for our resilience and, ultimately, I am resilient. When I realised the industry I was in was getting destroyed by Brexit and austerity I got another job. I have qualifications and skills. I will survive in my immigrant-coackrochy ways.

No, my biggest heartbreak is for Britain itself, for the people who have been interviewed on TV who are celebrating Brexit without being able to articulate one single benefit of it to their life. I have lived in this country long enough to have seen another Britain, a multicultural, vibrant, accepting country, where having an accent and coming from somewhere else was considered an exciting, interesting thing. I can still see that in some enlightened places, which are increasingly engulfed by the darkness of 'patriotism'.

I guess I am heartbroken because I had not only imagined a brighter future, I had seen how great things can be, and now the lights are going off.

We are discussing moving to Scotland or Ireland. It would be easy for me and my DH but harder on their kids. They are born in England, they are English. What to do - stay and resists? Move?

I do not know yet. I will know soon, we will talk and make plans.

But today I am heartbroken.

OP posts:
Gliese163 · 02/02/2020 16:29

somewhere where you feel might try to rejoin the EU, they will not be laying out the tartan carpet for you, the old enemy.

Where about in Scotland do you live that that's the case?

KenDodd · 02/02/2020 16:37

To the people saying nothing has happened yet I'm guessing you haven't read about the Brexit job losses at my company.

Anyway, what's done is done.
Leave voters own this now, no matter where they live, the consequences are all on them.

Overthinker1988 · 02/02/2020 22:01

Thank you @hadenough that means a lot...as well as my own nationality I also consider myself an adopted Scot. I love it here!

I think, reading through the comments about the UK being "full", that there's a misconception that everyone wants to come here and that once they're here they never leave. In reality people come and go all the time, and British people also move around. Since my country joined the EU there's been a boom in British "ex-pats" (notice how Brits are always expats but we're always immigrants). I don't understand how immigrants make Brits feel marginalised, as someone said? Most of us just want to blend in and live without fuss.

Songsofexperience · 03/02/2020 02:29

Most of us just want to blend in and live without fuss.

This.
On expats v immigrants, I think the distinction is quite simple: an expat is someone who's kept permanent ties with their country of origin and has the near certainty of returning there at some point. An immigrant is someone who has built everything they have in their host country and has no intention or prospect of return to their country of birth.

A lot of EU people are confused right now because they are currently working out what they are. My gut feeling is that many expats will leave and the immigrants will ultimately naturalise. How many go for the latter will depend entirely on how hostile the environment becomes. It's going to be a slow and painful process for a couple million people.

WhereShallWeMoveTo · 03/02/2020 05:36

I would like to say I would show them how those problems are caused by lack of investment from Westminster, how EU funding has been poured into many deprived areas, how it can't be the fault of immigrants when the reality is that there aren't actually that many overall

Right. So let's take the situation in these links below

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/482347/There-will-be-blood-say-victims-of-Roma-terror

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/907184/Romania-EU-prostitutes-trafficked-Redbridge-police-close-one-brothel-per-week

as just a couple of examples of the sort of thing that is deeply concerning and angering many very ordinary people who were motivated to vote Leave.

You can tell those people to stop reading sensationalist, right wing media content designed to whip up hatred, but the thing is they'll say they don't need to read about this stuff - they are often living with it all around them, in towns they don't recognise any more.

It's the rest of us lucky middle class types with our lovely Polish cleaners and plumbers who just read about it and call the people who dare to voice their concern 'Racists.'

In the case of this story

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2090012/One-Big-Issue-sellers-Romanian-homes-AND-claim-benefits.html

it's an example of the sort of thing that leads people to conclude that many EU migrants are only in it for the benefits and don't actually want 'real' or 'proper' full time work where they pay their taxes and contribute to our society. Now granted, those are probably a tiny minority and not representative of most hard working EU migrants, but can you blame people for being angry at a system that lets this happen?

These are just some of the things that have led many people to say they feel alienated and unsupported in their own country. For them the issues lie fairly and squarely in our inability to control free movement among EU migrants, who have no conditions placed upon them, no criteria to fulfil before arriving here.

The very people mostly affected by these sorts of stories are in working class, often quite disadvantaged communities already dealing with their own shit due to a lack of any real opportunity in the area. These are the Leave voters who are considered 'thick' because they don't have degrees. (there's a whole other discussion to be had about the irony of that, given the general level of critical thinking and competence in many university students these days, but that's for another thread.) These are the Leave voters considered by the middle class left wing elite to be 'Racists.'

Please explain to us here, how you plan to explain to them that their problems and concerns about stories like the ones I've linked to are NOTHING to do with EU free movement and everything to do with a lack of investment from Westminster and a long period of austerity in the UK.

WhereShallWeMoveTo · 03/02/2020 05:49

EU funding has been poured into many deprived areas

But that still doesn't change the fact that we are a net CONTRIBUTOR, not a net beneficiary.

We give the EU our money to be given some of it back and told what we can spend it on. It doesn't matter how you want to spin it, that is the simple truth of it.

deareloise · 03/02/2020 07:02

One quote that stood out to me re EU funding was a man who said quite simply, ‘but we didn’t want a clock. We wanted jobs.’

MonnaLIza · 03/02/2020 08:06

Regarding the links beyond, is it the trafficked women's 'fault' or of these who traffic them? And whose 'fault' it is if some workers are underpaid and exploited? Is it the fault of desperate workers from other countries or of those who exploit them?

It is not the EU, and immigration, the cause of poverty and austerity in this country it's this heartless government that you guys have elected. A government of schmutz elected by klutz!

I am quite a chilled person and don't take umbrage but if I did what would grate me would be the not so veiled suggestion that I am some kind of metropolitan elite and that my success has come to the loss of Brits.

Yes I was lucky to have a very good education but that came from a generous Italian government and have worked my eyes off on books. My family, both Christian and Jewish side being anti fascists, lost everything in the war, everything.

On the Jewish side, My great uncle Tristano was a resistance fighter executed by the nazis in 1943. My great grandfather had a summer villa on the seafront at Leghorn that was taken by Mussolini because he refused to join the party and lost his job because without membership of the fascist party you could not work. He was wealthy and run off to the us for a while but a lot of my family died at the camp in Fossoli.

The Christian side (I use this term loosely, in the cultural sense) as they/we aren't really religious) had it tough too because they saw right through the fascist rhetoric and promises. My great grandfather deserted the fascist army and went to join the resistance where he met my grandfather and they became lifelong friends. It was only after many years and twists of fate that his elder daughter went on to marry his friend's younger son. There were a bit of 'meh' on both sides of the family about the wedding (in the registry office. Both my mum and dad were/are unrepentantly secular).

Some people on the Jewish side were more upset, not because my mum wasn't Jewish but because she was a teacher coming from peasant stock whereas, although they also had nothing by that stage, they saw themselves as a family of faded grandeur but still grandeur.

Anyway this long story to say that yesterday I had a long conversation with my parents, born just after the war, and they immediately got it! They knew quite well from their parents who lived through the 1930s where this narrative of hatred and scapegoating goes. The parallels are there. From Italy they were very sad to see Britain leave the EU.

OP posts:
MonnaLIza · 03/02/2020 08:13

And also please don't post links to that crap daily mail shite if you want to bring some supporting evidence use some controlled, reliable source not that nazi supporting fountain of hate. Thank you!!

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Songsofexperience · 03/02/2020 08:27

One quote that stood out to me re EU funding was a man who said quite simply, ‘but we didn’t want a clock. We wanted jobs.’

What will that same man say once brexit fails to fulfil its promise? When he realises he only got a few pre recorded bongs and still no job?

MonnaLIza · 03/02/2020 08:39

"Please explain to us here, how you plan to explain to them that their problems and concerns about stories like the ones I've linked to are NOTHING to do with EU free movement and everything to do with a lack of investment from Westminster and a long period of austerity in the UK."

You explain it just like that. It's not hard to grasp.

OP posts:
WhereShallWeMoveTo · 03/02/2020 09:01

Well let’s say I am of limited intelligence and I do find it difficult to grasp. Explain it to me by dissecting it and showing me where the government’s lack of investment is to blame for Roma people standing in the street selling the Big Issue for a few hours a week as a way of accessing in work benefits. Please do try because I am clearly too stupid to understand without someone clever like you to explain it to me.

WhereShallWeMoveTo · 03/02/2020 09:09

Especially as they don’t even need to turn a profit in this so called self employment venture of theirs. What am I missing about the lack of investment in Westminster that causes this and allows it to happen?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 03/02/2020 09:27

WhereShallIMoveTo and Binterested, really have whittled off the hyperbole and dramatics for me about this. I vote to remain, I didn't get what I wanted. I'm the British-born child of an immigrant mother .

These threads are so focused on what the remainers wanted that any voice in dissent is rounded on and dismissed. It's been this way for months, years now even. My embarrassment isn't levelled at the people who voted to leave, it's voted at the government, the ones who put us in this insidious position. If blame is to be attributed then that's where it needs to be.

There was no reason for this 'Leave or Stay' debacle, no need for a referendum at all. There were better questions:

  1. Members expenses - open book and full moderated by independent means?
  2. Close the loopholes to ensure that businesses operating in the UK pay the full amount of tax due?
  3. Get rid of gutter journalism once and for all?

Those would have been better topics for scrutiny and questioning the validity of. Not this. Those questions and any others that we might well want to have a voice on, will never, ever be asked.

The government (a misnomer if ever there was one), fully intended that the UK would leave the EU, and that's what they've manipulated. The voters were almost irrelevant because, if they'd wanted to, TM/BJ could have found myriad reasons to bring it to a screeching halt. They didn't want to... because it was always the mandate.

Think what you like but look behind the scenes.

Now that we have left, the only thing to do is go forward. Either as part of the UK - or somewhere else if you have other options and a mind to leave. I'm not embarrassed to be British, never will be and if I had to now fill out forms myself then that's what I'd do. As PP have mentioned, getting in to any country to live means hoop-jumping... and lots of it.

The racism is something that is abhorrent to most but, like everything else, its the 'bad news' that gets the page hits. Everybody should be addressing it where they see it.

Songsofexperience · 03/02/2020 09:38

The voters were almost irrelevant because, if they'd wanted to, TM/BJ could have found myriad reasons to bring it to a screeching halt. They didn't want to... because it was always the mandate.

Not only that, but no deal with the EU has always been the mandate. I bet you the USUKA (US/UK Agreement) has been already drafted for a while...

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 03/02/2020 09:44

Agree entirely, Songsofexperience. Our politicians may be self-service arsewipes but, they're not stupid. BJ is a clever man, very clever. I only hope that he engineers a forward plan that has some benefit for the rest of UK mankind, even if that is only a byproduct.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 03/02/2020 09:46

Seen on a car sticker years ago...

Guy Fawkes, where are you, now that we need you...?

LEELULUMPKIN · 03/02/2020 10:37

Yeah coz blowing people up is always the answer. FFS.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 03/02/2020 10:47

Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs...

Dolorabelle · 03/02/2020 12:54

Dear @MonnaLIza a handhol. As far as I am concerned you are my countrywoman.

I too am heartbroken at what this country has become, in violations of our proud long history of accepting people from all over the world. Our history of accepting and celebrating refugees and migrants.

The Britain I see around me -where posters requiring people speak only English silently appearing - is not the best of what I know our country can be.

MonnaLIza · 03/02/2020 13:14

@WhereShallWeMoveTo, I charge £250 ph for lecturing; but I'll do it free. Just donate £1,000 to a refugee charity (I suppose with 3/4 hours you should get it) Please kindly forward remittance and we shall proceed. I have a lovely reading list for you.

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MonnaLIza · 03/02/2020 13:16

@Dolorabelle thank you and you of mine: we are both citizens of Planet Earth. Race: human.

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SwishSwishSheesh · 03/02/2020 13:20

Oh what drama Hmm
You'll be fine. You're not getting kicked out, you have all the same rights as you did before, this Brexit thing will have hardly any impact on you. Or me, also a non-UK citizen. Get a grip, seriously.

MonnaLIza · 03/02/2020 13:31

@SwishSwishSheesh, with all due respect you get a grip and jog on. My life. My heart. My beliefs. My choice.
Merci & danke

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WhereShallWeMoveTo · 03/02/2020 13:45

That's such a cop out Monna sorry, but I think you just can't answer the question and by the lack of responses I'm guessing no-one else can either.

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