To find SOME Brexiteer gloating embarrassing?

[SirChing]

I have read threads saying that we have left and "nothing has happened, just like the millennium bug".

Well, that'll be because we are transition so the No Deal situation has been avoided - for now.

And the millennium bug didn't happen because loads of IT people worked their arses off for years to prevent it.

I have read a rant about us needing new passports for this summer costing £1000, due to remained MPs and civil servants wanting to "punish" leavers.

I am cringing at the level of gloating and "so nerr" posts on here, flinging about bollocks as facts, and celebrating something which noone seems to be able to demonstrate any positives for.

Just me?

Yes it's a fact that local traditions and cultures are eroding, but there are two different ways to interpret this.

One is to blame it on foreign influences and immigrants. The 'dilution' argument. Expressed with varying degrees of xenophobia. Often in a passive voice ('our heritage is being eroded' -- no mention of who's doing the eroding) so one can express shock when anyone objects to the underlying xenophobic attitude.

The other way is to accept that the decline of traditions is something that happens all over the world, always. In the modern era and the industrialized world, not many people live exactly as their grandparents did, for many reasons (a number have been suggested already here). This is not a uniquely British problem that can be solved by isolationism or restricted immigration. It's just the way of the world.

Quickly, before I go:
All of those countries have higher real income growth than the UK though Clavinova.

Indeed - "Ireland is making Paul Krugman eat crow/the success of Ireland's policy of economic austerity."

"To combat the decline, the Irish government bit the bullet and swallowed the bitter medicine of economic austerity."

"The then Irish Premier, Brian Cowen, launched the biggest assault on public services ever seen in western Europe.The government raised taxes, cut salaries in the public sector by up to 20%"...

www.marketwatch.com/story/ireland-is-making-paul-krugman-eat-crow-2015-11-11

Clavinova

I don't care if it's that much or that little. I look at what we've lost. We've got more out of the EU than we put in

Oh god a link from 5 years ago?

Desperation

Oh it's only 0.8% of government spending. Worth it

I don't see a direct connection between my leave the EU vote and someone's father suffering subsequent prejudice from another leave voter

No dear. I guess you wouldn't.

Maybe time to read a bit of European history, eh?

@mykingdom "I don't see a direct connection between my leave the EU vote and someone's father suffering subsequent prejudice from another leave voter." Er, seriously? The rise of intolerance? Racism? Anti-semitism? Islamophobia? Our country, our people first, before everyone else? Not ringing any bells? Doesn't have to be a direct connection, frankly.

"But...the general feeling was the referendum was a chance to be heard and make a point that a great swathe of people are not being listened to."

Yes, and what was the point exactly?

@mykingdom - thank you for outlining your reasons, I respect you for that. For me, the reasons that you outline will not be solved by leaving the EU, they are reasons caused by other factors. But we'll have to wait & see.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh I think you know what I meant. I am not responsible for the actions of strangers.

@ddl1 "Remainers will gloat viciously about any job losses, economic decline or other misfortune in an industry or part of the country where a majority voted to leave." Er, no we won't, we precisely didn't want any of those thing, and were not prepared to take the risk for the sake of some nebulous idea of sovereignty.

Apparently loads of the, frankly, violent and intolerant people who turned out in London on Friday to intimidate people protesting legally were wearing Donald Trump masks. This would be where the accusations of stupidity would come in, and be justified. It is simply nonsensical to 'take back control', whilst angling for a kind of domination from the west which will see us lose by almost every measure you care to mention.

@Ofthread Again, the underlying assumption I am uneducated, British by birth or unaware of cultural differences. Therefore making me fair game for antagonistic responses.
But yes, our country first if required. Why not? But that isn't why I voted to leave the EU. The other residents of Europe were not a deciding factor.
@greenlavender Thank you.

@mykingdom we keep being told that we aren't listening. But no-one is saying anything! Noone is telling us what they are pissed off about as they refuse to say why they voted leave.

Yes you are being very unreasonable. MN is massively biased towards remain. Nowhere else have I see such extreme views and horrible rhetoric towards leave voters. The bile from remainers continues.

This^^ When are remainers going to stop throwing their toys out of the pram? answer...never.

When did the leave campaign stop after 1975?

Hypocrisy

I find some Brexiteers embarrassing and some Remainers embarrassing.

YANBU, that spectacle of flag waving, union jack tie and underpants wearing, shouting, hostile, intolerant, one-liner politics the other night is an embarrassment to this country.

^^ But it was okay to wave and boo at tv news cameras at Westminster for the past 3 years, PLUS go around wearing Bollocks to Brexit (lovely language for children to see) t-shirts, PLUS calling 17million people racist/xenophobic/uneducated/thick etc...that's okay is it?

@SirChing
we keep being told that we aren't listening. But no-one is saying anything!

You are either not listening, not understanding or ignoring.

I have posted on the thread why some people voted leave, yet I haven't said anything.

Maybe the truth is that you just don't want to hear.

Aside from work gangs, I will also point out that farmers have received a lot of EU grants the farming areas (the people) haven't.

'Remainers will gloat viciously about any job losses, economic decline or other misfortune in an industry or part of the country where a majority voted to leave." Er, no we won't, we precisely didn't want any of those thing, and were not prepared to take the risk for the sake of some nebulous idea of sovereignty.

I don't know how the word 'will' crept into my post. I was talking about things that have already been said, not predictions for the future. I am a Remainer who wouldn't dream of gloating; nor I think would most of us; but on for instance on any FB thread about farmers' concerns about the effects of Leaving, there are always a few people who say 'Karma', 'You get what you vote for', etc., even though (a) 45% of farmers voted Remain; (b) it doesn't just personally affect the farmers, but anyone who needs to eat!

@QuiQuaiQuod if by 'throwing toys out of the pram' you mean asking why an advisory referendum with illegality in the campaigning (and we're still waiting for the Russia report) won by a very small margin and characterised by absolute lies was allowed to stand... yeah I'll never stop believing and saying that it's a pile of shit. It is a pile of shit and the whole thing makes a mockery of democracy.

Brexit has already cost the uk the same as around 47 years' worth of contributions so well done everyone. Great value there

@QuiQuaiQuod No, those things aren't ok. This isn't about name-calling. I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that 17 million people have been 'called' racist etc. We have a right to raise the issues of racism, xenophobia etc. & to talk about them on a cultural level. If you see this as 'name-calling' you might want to check your privilege.

FYI, waving and booing at TV cameras is not equal to the kinds of violent protest witnessed from Pro-Brexit folk on Friday. Everyone has the right to protest in this democracy, the one that you are so keen on upholding.

I find it galling and perhaps embarrassing when celebrating leavers can’t articulate why they are celebrating. They have taken something from me that I truly value, they are celebrating on a day when I feel desperately sad ... and they can’t even come up with an actual reason, other from ‘getting my country back’.

Also a general comment: some leavers interpret Remainer anger at the situation as contempt. (It can become one of those 'irregular verbs': I am righteously indignant; you lost your temper; they are showing contempt and arrogance!) Some of us are angry about Brexit because we think it is bad for us and for the country, and because we think there was dishonesty in the political campaigns. This has nothing to do with thinking that Leavers are thick or uneducated; most of us don't even care whether they (or we) are or not. It has to do with resenting what has been forced on us! There is a stereotype that Remainers look down arrogantly on Brexit supporters; no, we just don't like the likely effects of Brexit.

May queens. Nobody does that anymore. Same with Easter Parades. Gone.

I'm 63, grew up in a small English market town. I've never seen either of the above.