To not know how to handle battle of wills and tantrums with 4yo DS

[ButIDontWantto]

Party posting in here for traffic, but also because I think I am BU for not knowing how best to handle this. (I've also name changed)

DS (4.5) is mostly lovely, sweet, good natured, etc, but has always been, er, strong willed and prone to tantrums. He's quite straightforward, but also quite sensitive. Had epic meltdowns between about 18m & 2.5 about stuff like getting dressed. They seemed to have gone away, but the battle of wills and therefore tantrums have returned with a vengeance in the past few weeks. Possibly also relevant - he has a massive preference for DH (who is primary carer as I work FT, albeit from home a lot) and has been this way for ages (since about 18 months). He's not started school yet and no big changes or anything else going on at home. He's at nursery 4 days a week, where he is an angel (of course). We have an older DD (6), who he adores.

He has a couple of main triggers (around morning and bedtime routines) which basically come down to him wanting (or not wanting) things to be done a certain way (e.g. he currently only wants DH to bath him). Things can quickly escalate to DS shouting at us. Standard response to that ('ignore' or 'consequences') then quickly escalate shouting to a tantrum, which then take forever for him to calm down from.

I know it's about control. But the old 'give him two choices' trick has never, ever worked with him. Some of the stuff isn't an issue really (it's annoying for DH to have to bath him each night, but not a big deal really), but some of it is more obstructive (e.g. he comes into our bed for about 20 mins each morning, which is fine, but then kicks off when it's time to get up - obviously we can't give in to that as we have to get up to get everyone to school/ work/ nursery on time!).

So - any tips? Frankly it makes me feel like a shit parent (not least the ongoing preference for DH/ rejection of me) and it's making the atmosphere at home in the mornings/ evenings horrible :(

What worked with my child was
1 Picking my battles.
2 No choices
3 Countdowns, just say in ten minutes we're getting dressed, then 5 mins, 2 mins then OK time to get dressed.
4 Distraction. Mostly mixing up what they said to get them laughing. As in "did you say you won't put your blocks" on your feet?!

When DD1 was little abs hated getting drrsssed in the morning I would put her to bed in clean clothes- something like leggings and a t shirt is pretty similar to PJ’s. In the morning there’s no hassle! Only really works if they’re dry at night tho

So in general don’t change your plans based on what he wants if your plans are important ( brushing teeth/bedtime...).

But if he is emotionally not on board with you, communicate things to him in a suitable manner and if it’s a habit develop a way to help him be ready for it.. and once it’s time for it just get on with it and if he has a meltdown or a tantrum you go down to him level, hug him and calmly softly speak to him and tell him you’re sorry/understand how he feels but it’s important that he finishes what you asked him and that you will do what he wants another time.

Be empathetic, but authoritative. In everything.

So in summary:

1- try get him to understand what you want either by pictures or word or routine or whatever

2- help him express what he wants, either by giving him choices and letting him choose or by helping him translate his feelings into words and acknowledge that you understand and feel with him

3- say that you hope he feels better about it. But stick to what you want. Give him time to calm down before you enforce the activity.

4- use hugs, words, and time and distractions to help him get over it. But in the meanwhile insisting that what you want is what’s going ahead but that you will work with him to make it less overwhelming.

5- once meltdown is less aggressive you start with the activity. If he resists again, repeat the cycle until he finally gives in

It gets easier after consistency and him learning that he won’t get his way by screaming.

However discussions and reasoning need to happen otherwise you risk him learning that he is voiceless which is another issue m

I have a child like this! (So glad I'm not alone.) Mine is 9 and still the same.

Many many people have told me to be stricter. It doesn't work with certain children - it ends up in horrible confrontation with no resolution - and doesn't lead to better behaviour the next time. Even rather the contrary.

Similarly to what OneMoreForExtra says, I find that sometimes you can distract away from a tantrum / showdown with humour. 'Oh my gosh! I opened the curtains!! What was I thinking of? That's so terrible of me, let me rush to close them!'

I have recently discovered my spirited, independent 3 yr old likes Alexa alarms and countdowns.
And will do what the creepy android says.
I try to turn it into a game- we both have to use shoes in before the 3 minute timer goes.

Interestingly we have the opposite dynamic- daddy is away during the week, and when he is here she only wants him for everything. It’s no easier being the one who sorts everything all day everyday, and then daddy wanders in and it’s all wonderful.

3yo DS is exactly like this. He wants control. What helps a lot is depersonalising it so it's not me versus him.
So
His coat wants to give him a hug not 'put your coat on'
His dinosaur toothbrush wants it's party (it does the Hokey Cokey in his mouth)
The sun wants to see him in the morning (to open the curtains)
All his things talk to him I pretend to speak for the Sun
'DS let me in, let me in, where are you? I can't see you?'

I am endlessly silly and incompetent so he has to help me, I can't find the clothes, he needs to turn the bathroom light on for me. It means he is in control. 'I'll forget his boots and he'll remind me though if I suggest them it's a definite no.

I tell him stories about his things that reflect his life so his 'iPad's mummy' is telling him he needs to go to sleep so he'll have energy to play with DS in the morning and the iPad says no no no, how silly is that. He happily agrees things are silly if it's not him.

I try to move through the routines of the day just with silliness so it's happening but fun and he cooperates most of the time. I'll tell him he's got a lot of no's in his tummy today and how many more are there, oh no there's more. Oh I think I've got a loud one (by this time he's dressed and hasn't bothered!)

When I don't have the energy for silliness we have a lot more conflict.

@OneMoreForExtra thanks for that - that makes a lot of sense. Because I do feel that he's had a bit of a personality transplant in the last few weeks. He seems emotionally 'out of sorts'

I'll look up 'PACE' and try those methods

Does he like music, OP?

This sounds so familiar to me OP. My 6 year old DD2 is like this. The difference is I am the default parent but that doesn’t mean she behaves any better for me. She can be absolutely awesome but there is a battle over something every single day. I’m afraid I read ‘How to Talk...’ with high hopes and have found it completely useless. Some of the tactics work on my (much more placid) DD2 but she is not who I struggle with! I cling to the fact that she is much easier now than she was at 3/4 so maybe there is hope for the future! She is also not a fan of transitions and an angel at school.

My much for placid DD1 that should say.

If he does, doing adversarial things before X song finishes can be helpful.

Also - have you heard about “flipping your life”?

Smile He's not particularly into music. In fact, that's another battle ground (DD wants to listen to bloody Frozen II again music in the car, DS wants to listen to stories. DS: 'I hate music'. Will then proceed to complain loudly and annoyingly when music is put on. Etc.

What's 'Flipping your life'? Just googled it and lots of different things came up...

OP, I’m interested to know why you haven’t responded at all to Dividing?

@1AngelicFruitCake I assume the OP is working on the principle of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" 😁 Driver's posts are only useful if you want to be, as she described it, a disciplinarian. Not everyone thinks that is the only or most positive relationship to have with your young children, and it's quite clear from how she posts the OP is one of these parents. So she is engaging with the posters making suggestions that may actually be useful to her, rather than ones that go completely contrary to the kind of person she is or parent she wants to be or child she wants to have.

*dividing, not driver!!

There are so many good suggestions here and only you know which will work best for your child. I also wanted mine on board with the idea that our family was a team that worked better when we were all in it together - I didn’t want to be a harsh disciplinarian (although I am over some things like any hint of fighting between my boys or any unkindness).

The distraction and playfulness sometimes worked really well, sometimes it hugely pissed him off. What also worked well, as mentioned from a poster above, was giving mine responsibility for things himself.

Also I absolutely agree with the nonchalant calmness. I am not like this personally but when I manage to master the trick of responding to a mini tantrum with a kind of distracted nonchalance, and didn’t let myself get drawn into an argument, it helped my sanity at least!

I would also say “it seems like you’re really annoyed about this right now. I’ll leave you to calm down a bit. If there’s anything you need help with then just ask, otherwise, we’ll get on with “activity” once you’ve stopped yelling” - and then just ignore until they talk to you in a normal voice.

Sorry haven’t read the whole thread. Just wanted to mention that boys have a huge increase in testosterone at 4 and 14. Sorry not advice, but hang in there!

VeniceQueen2004 fair enough! I couldn’t sleep and read the whole thread last night and really noticed that!

I do think there’s something to be said for being firmer (and I struggle with this sometime). I think we can give children too much responsibility when sometimes the best thing for them is to have a clear idea of the consequence of what will happen if the behaviour carries on.

DS wants to listen to stories

Can you get him or DD an ipod and headphones so they can listen to their own stuff? This is one of the 'pick your battles' topics - no need to make an issue out of it, if there are other solutions.

So much negotiation and chat with a 4 year old. They get up and dressed in the morning because that's what they need to do. Whoever baths him, baths him. Why are you letting him call the shots? I'm not suggesting you go in shouting and screaming. You offer rewards if he doesn't fuss or sanctions if he does (favourite toy goes away or time out). You make it as pleasant as you can, 'well done for getting dressed quickly' etc but ultimately he does it without loads of fuss and drama.

Everybody saying 'just show them whose the boss' is welcome to come over to my place and try.

If DD has decided she does not do it, then 'just do it' is not an option. She will not hear anything about rewards, and she will just shrug when you take any toys away.

I would try big hugs during the tantrum. Showing you understand why he's kicking off 'you're cross because we opened the curtains and you want them closed' then when he's calm explain why the curtains need opening. Don't ask a 4 year old why, he won't know, not really. Stand firm though but pick your battles not insisting on things that don't matter really ( like curtains) will stop tantrums before they start.

I have been there, done that with a strong willed DD who is now 13 and definitely an easier teen than she was a 4 year old. Children need to be given the opportunity to express their choices and needs safely within their play, within situations they can manage, but not in every day life. They don't have the necessary skills and it overwhelms them. They need parents or carers who tell them this is what is happening and ensure a secure routine for them. They also do need to know that sometimes they just have to do what the adult says or when they get to school and there are 29 other children who want to do 29 other things besides line up to go to assembly and all think they should get to choose, it causes a bit of a problem.

Hugs! My DD is a shin kicker in these types of situations. Hugging would definitely not help.