to find it impossible to forgive Brexiters

[mrsmootoo]

Can't forgive Brexiters for voting Leave. Find it impossible to move on from this. If there are any positives about leaving EU (?!) they are far outweighed by Remaining. Brexit posts on social media are so aggressive and unpleasant - you lost get over it. Really concerned about my kids' prospects, not being able to travel/work abroad as easily etc.

safa "Time will tell whether Brexit is as much of a shitshow as the pessimists expect. But I can probably forgive people who voted for it. I still think it's a stupid idea, but ultimately I think there are a lot of government policies that have had and will have more impact than leaving the EU."

Unfortunately, many of these UK government policies have been often quite casually cited as being reasons to leave the EU, tho they have nothing to do with the EU, but how gullible^ many of the UK public turned out to be?

I loathed Gove as Education secretary, I really did; his single minded imposition of what he wanted onto our DC's education; his denial of expertise; his refusal to listen to educationalists; he denigration of 'experts' (that one played well to the gallery, didn't it?)...

However, once faced with the critical thinking skills of so many, one has to conceded there is a yawning gap in many people's ability. The most basic challenge results in DM sound bite replies.

Gove may have had a point.

@mrsmootoo Oh dear. 😄

Get a life. Seriously.

According to a PP you can blame me. Forgive them all, blame me as I did not vote.
I really truly did not know what was the right thing to do, therefore I did nothing and if everyone’s honest with themselves no one really knows/knew the effect this would all have. However I did sway towards leave, but purely for a hope that things would get better, having said that I do get sick of the racist, stop letting immigrants in our country posts from the leavers.... but then I hate them regardless of brexit.

We are leaving the world's largest trading bloc in favour of global trading at the very time we must all reduce carbon emissions. Makes no sense.
I am having a total news blackout on Friday. I cannot bear to watch any misplaced triumphalism.

I couldn't care less whether I am forgiven by you, or anyone else for that matter!
It's happening. We are having champagne on Friday, any excuse.

However anyone voted we live n a democracy. It doesn’t matter if it’s a one vote difference the country voted and we are leaving. There’s been three years of trying to stop it, it couldn’t be done. Then we had the GE and the country spoke again, and yes that led to a lot of nasty comments from both sides.

I don’t see the point of being angry, bitter etc now, it won’t get us anywhere, it’s a wasted emotion. We need to move forward and hope a good deal is done.

We are told children can still travel in the EU, we are told people will still be able to come to this country to contribute. Time to see what happens

The thing I find saddest is those, of both sides, who say they can’t be friends any more with people, including family, who didn’t vote as they did. That’s really sad, and in my opinion shows real intolerance

screaming Yes. Always follow the money. To who funded Leave.

Note: it wasn't research scientists.

If you disregard the illegal overspending by leave campaigns

The overspend figure is £675,315?

Campaign spending:

•Remain: £19,309,588 + Government's £9 million leaflet.
•Leave: £13,332,569 + £675,315 overspend.

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/campaign-spending-eu-referendum

If all the remoaners had decided that they would accept the democratic verdict and get behind those trying to get a good deal,we would be in a far stronger position than we are now.Have you never heard "United we stand,divided we fall" ? The EU could see the divisions,weakening our negotiating position.

Jeez, I hope you're taking the piss.

On the off chance this is serious, could you posit a mechanism for how the fully united feelings of British people would've been capable of influencing the negotiators for the other side?

The last General Election was the Brexit election whether people like it or not.

Indeed derxa and it delivered a very clear majority of votes against leaving the EU this week with Johnson's deal. Therein lies the problem.

I feel very sad about leaving and this week's announcements about dropping the £30,000 earnings threshold for some immigrants and agriculture etc not even needing immigration 'points' make me think a lot of people who voted for Brexit won't even get what they wanted and it will have all been for nothing! ( if anyone is mad enough to want to come here in the first place after this!)
I have however accepted it's happening! People don't seem to care that we will be poorer - all of us - and not just financially so I'm going to live my best life, spend time with the people I love and just ignore it!

BoxedWine I wasn't saying that the OP was nasty, I was referring to some of the comments on the thread.

The term remainer needs to be changed to rejoiner as of Friday at 11pm.

Love it Oatcake

@mrsmootoo

Also, as a few people have already said, how about you blame the many people who didn't vote? Instead of blaming Brexiters???

lowland "Those who supported Brexit have been accused of voting for the death of children on here by those who voted remain, and you think the Brexiters were aggressive and unpleasant !"

Actually, judging by the state of the NHS now the EU workers are walking out, you might be rather surprised.

Ours have been replaced by 'non-EU-trained' staff.

Many are OK.

Some evidently, absolutely, outrageously- aren't.

If you knew the scale of the daily fuck-ups I witness, some of which have required a swift grabbing of equipment from inept hands, you might realise how close we are.

Pointless being angry and not forgiving as the only person who suffers then is you. I know many people who voted leave and all of them, without exception, are intelligent successful people and many run their own businesses. I respect their right to their own choice just as they respect mine even if I don’t understand why they made it.

If you are going to be angry you need to direct it at those in charge, Cameron et al, who got us into this mess in the first place. We just need to hope that the government is able to forge a way through and find a way through that works for all.

I have faith that our children will be able to travel and work abroad if they want to regardless of eu status. Myself and friends have worked abroad and in countries that required visas without too much stress so hopefully that will still be the case.

@Antihop Its a national disaster ... in your opinion

I feel very sad about it but I saw an opinion poll this week saying the Conservatives are on something like 52% (!!) so yes, this ship has very much sailed I'm afraid. Even many people who voted remain must now be supporting Johson's Conservatives, for reasons I struggle to understand, but there it is. I am in a minority and it's not fun but I was in a majority for a long time, and hopefully will be again in the future. Politics moves in waves: I think some of us have got very comfortable being in the majority and have forgotten what it is like to be ignored. It's frustrating but it's not a reason to give up or be angry. It's a reason to listen more, understand more, advocate more.

What I can do is still argue for greater cooperation with other countries, and vote for politicians who promise to cooperate more internationally in the future. I will always believe in the principles underlying peaceful European cooperation, but I'll need to pursue those ideals through different means now.

Why should we forge a deal with America (or anyone else) over the one we had with the EU if it's about sovereignty?

BoxedWine I wasn't saying that the OP was nasty, I was referring to some of the comments on the thread.

Several of which have been from Brexiters, of course.

I have faith that our children will be able to travel and work abroad if they want to regardless of eu status. Myself and friends have worked abroad and in countries that required visas without too much stress so hopefully that will still be the case.

Not if their only passport is British.

To be honest I think you have a point op.

I also think Gove might be right. My dd's (17) critical reasoning skills are far better than my 60 something relatives or her 30 something cousins.

But it's happened and you can only focus on what you can control (sigh). I'm pulling back on the volunteering stuff I do. It takes a lot of my time and I don't feel that invested anymore. Putting my focus on my work... and supporting my kids to do well at school and have options for the future, which I fully expect that will mean emigrating (how ironic).

You have to find a way to move on. It does not necessarily mean forgiving.

ScreamingLadySutch the Clinical Trials Directive 2001 has been unpopular across the EU and is being repealed and superseded this year across the EU. The fact that the directive was being torn up was known at the time of the referendum, because the new draft regulation was published in 2014 to enthusiastic reviews from NHS and other UK stakeholders. So hardly a reason in favour of Brexit.

For all of you who 'are mystified' at why people want to leave the EU?

I really am trying hard to give you logical, dispassionate evidence that this was a rational choice and it is in fact Remainers who are irrational!

ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY. This is what we were taught, in order to explain the 'why?' of anything!

Brexit is a LOGICAL DECISION to leave an over regulated, protectionist, centrally bureaucratised political construct that distorts the market [away from southern mediterranean states which battles with a debt they can do nothing about, towards Germany which battles with a trade surplus they can do nothing about].

NO amount of screeching about Nazis, nationalism, evil, stupid, upset, disaster, catastrophe etc etc etc gets away from this issue!

How do you Remainers explain, or incorporate into your catastrophic narrative, that 'In Spite of Brexit':

1. the economy is growing whilst Germany is battling (see Dr Alice Weidel)
2. unemployment is falling
3. FDI (foreign direct investment) IS LARGER than Paris and Berlin put together, ESPECIALLY in IT and the 4th industrial revolution markets?

Yes, folks, those evil ruthless coldly logical billionaires and capital are pouring money in the UK over the EU post referendum.

ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MONEY for your answer.

How do you explain this in your doom laden prophesies? Because, happy to give you the rational, logical, ECONOMIC explanations!

I have faith that our children will be able to travel and work abroad if they want to regardless of eu status

Well mine will, as they're thankfully citizens of another EU country too. But if yours are only British, as things stand they're going to have their options significantly narrowed. The fact that some British people have been able to get visas elsewhere and that there will still be visa options existing doesn't negate this.

placemats Are other countries going to stop British people working there or travelling there? Genuine question, please don’t think I am being rude, but I assumed they would still be able to travel just like we do now if going outside the eu?