to find it impossible to forgive Brexiters

[mrsmootoo]

Can't forgive Brexiters for voting Leave. Find it impossible to move on from this. If there are any positives about leaving EU (?!) they are far outweighed by Remaining. Brexit posts on social media are so aggressive and unpleasant - you lost get over it. Really concerned about my kids' prospects, not being able to travel/work abroad as easily etc.

@Justanotherlurker

Please. You made this accusation about me -
without posting your history on the labour antisemitism threads where you continued to downplay it

I responded -

Please do post my history on Labour antisemitism threads. I would be very interested to see it considering I have never even posted on any Labour threads at all, don't vote Labour and am from a half Jewish family.

Are you going to post my history or admit you just made it up?

And for what it's worth I can't stand Corbyn.

@Wearywithteens

Yes i did deliberately make a massive assumption about you.... just as you did about middle class remain voters... not very nice is it?

As for bitter? i've an EU passport, so mine is a Pelforth! though i prefer

nobodyimportant same here.

Forget about people and their circumstances, that was never an issue for the Tories anyway. This is all about Trade Deals.

Let's see how it all works out in eleven months time and see what has been achieved.

I think it will be all swept under the carpet after Friday, and those who voted leave will think all has been achieved.

Says a lot about how some people think. But anyway.

YANBU it's a disaster and it was won unfairly. The memorabilia really sticks in my craw. The shit show is coming at the end of the year and then another long slow recession. Joy

OP, I totally understand. I can never forgive the Brexiteers. And as Friday approaches their vindictive gloating and glee at celebrating their 'win' simply reinforces my (extremely low) opinion of the sort of people they are.

I don't see the divisions caused by this car crash ever healing. In fact they're only going to get worse as the dire consequences of Brexit start to become apparent. I wish remainers could somehow be insulated from the effects but unfortunately we're going to get dragged down along with the Brexiteers.

What is the disaster that you foresee?

"THE MARKETS on the other hand, have to respond to free market discipline. This makes the free market agile and responsive.

Remainers are you listening!

THIS is the difference between EU and Brexit! THIS is what Brexit is actually about!"

A large chunk of the oh-so-hated European Commission is about protecting free competition and removing state aids that would distort the market.

There seems to be an assumption that democracy means a simple 'accept the result of the referendum and shut up'

It's a bit more complicated than that. For a start, we do not have proper democracy without proper access to facts. Given the majority of the media's drip feeding of anti EU lies and anti foreigner front pages, and lack of positive Eu information that was a non starter.

Democracy did not stop in June 2016, democracy is a continuing process. To dissent is part of democracy. To suppress an opposing view is a fascist act.

I'm glad to exercise my democratic right to resist the result.

We live in a democracy. Saying you can't forgive people who disagreed with you is abhorrent.
Does freedom of expression not have a place in a democracy then?

It's easy to be indifferent/resigned/blasé if you're not personally affected. Enjoy the privilege.

Of the millions who thought Hitler was a good idea, and that included hundreds of thousands of English people including the PM at the time, many many lived to regret their stupidity.

Very much so with the upper and upper middle classes because they were so afraid of communism and what they would lose, that they embraced fascism. Then tried to play it down later.

I was just reading about Unity and Diana Mitford. Their enthusiasm for Hitler coupled with shear nastiness is almost unbelievable. E.g. an elderly Jewish lady, weighed down with luggage, asked Diana Mitford the way to the station. So the Mitford took a delight in sending her in the opposite direction.

@kendodd

Brexiters don’t care about any of the consequences. To do so would force them to admit they were either hoodwinked by the tabloid media and spin, or admit that they will doggedly insist on their perception of ‘we won’ - frankly, NO ONE has won anything - and they are blind to the repercussions they have unwittingly voted for.

It’s clear the super rich have done a great job in turning the working classes against the middle classes and pointing all the blame for what the privileged wreak squarely at the foot of ‘snowflake liberals’.

It’s sad because in the larger part they’re the ones willing to sacrifice more for the greater good. But the British working man wants to be ruled by ‘gentry’ and never questions that status quo. And they resent the person with more qualifications or a profession as such as causing their problems. The elite also help them nurture a hatred of Jonny Foreigner who takes equal blame for the woes actually inflicted by the elites.

They don’t care. As they bemoan NHS waiting times and plumbers prices and soaring costs of care for their elderly and ailing families, they won’t care.

But the country spoke, right?

The Transition period is the biggest fuck off con to everyone.

EU facilitated it but in eleven months time UK will have to make its own decisions. No Deal, BRINO, Extension. What will it be?

Thing is, the year previous to the Referendum, 6.8% of people stated that their chief concern was the EU...
Honestly, Leavers. How many of you gave a rat's arse? Until you were told to.

Firstly, that statistic is fairly meaningless on its own. It might have been second biggest priority to 60%. I care very much about the state of the education system, but I'm probably more concerned about about universal credit.

Secondly, it's possible to change one's mind without being brainwashed. I had serious concerns about the EU before the referendum: its policies (eg the effect of the CAP on African nations), running (eg wasteful annual relocation of parliament) and direction ("ever closer" goal & euro were move towards federalism). Yet I could only imagine voting remain.

I was reasonably informed already (eg read Economist & broadsheets) but felt I needed to at least look into the EU in more depth before voting on such an important matter. I was pretty sure I'd end up voting remain.

I spent a long time (100, 150hrs?) reading serious matter. Not the campaign literature, but the Maastricht Treaty, and some academic papers.

I concluded that I should vote Leave.

I'm not so well informed now - with a baby, and doing a fair bit of volunteer work (yes, even a Leaver can care about the community!) I just don't take the time. And I probably won't take the time to detail the reasons I can remember because I want to go to bed.

But

1. My vote wasn't influenced by either campaign or by the press.

2. I was certainly not as informed as some, but I was better informed than many of the angry remain voting people who said I must be stupid and selfish. I voted for what i believed to be best for the country, long term (not, I think best for my generation, but I believe best for 50, 100 years and so on).

3. whilst I believe I made the right choice, I am sad to see the country so divided. I feel for those who are gutted to leave. I feel for everyone who will suffer (I think it likely the economy, and therefore of course people, will suffer in the short and medium term). I'm frustrated at leavers who are gloating, and at those of my Remain friends and family who persist in slurring leave voters.

I know there are strong feelings, but we need more tolerance of opposing views and kindness towards those that hold them.

Hmm, I know that British Industry and Government is bedevilled by short termism, but I think it decidedly odd to vote on the basis that things might be better in 100 years time. When you will be dead, and even your children might be.

l think it depends entirely on their reasons, but at the end of the day, it's done now, and we can't change it.
However. l saw a post on social media that a woman had been interviewed by a journalist (here where l live in Yorkshire) and she actually said "l can't wait to see the buses roll in on Friday to take the immigrants away."
l think that in some cases, not all, but certainly some, that just about sums it up.

and she actually said "l can't wait to see the buses roll in on Friday to take the immigrants away."

Then she is likely to be bitterly disappointed. She will be almost certain to see more immigrants in the health service as the UK takes staff from Asia to replace EU citizens.

The Government is keen to kick people out as we have seen by the Windrush scandal, but round ups are probably just a bit too reminiscent of Nazi Germany.

I would like to share the view of a 17 year old Brexiteer. I am horrified to see so many on this thread denouncing Brexiteers as ignorant racists, and drawing incredibly offensive comparisons to the Holocaust.

I approach Brexit from a left wing perspective. I believe that the 21st century relies on Britain to be an outward looking nation. Brexit is not about isolationism, but internationalism. It is an opportunity to work with countries both in and out of the EU towards a fairer and more prosperous world. I was particularly concerned to learn recently that the EU places significantly higher tariffs on manufactured and processed goods, in comparison to raw materials. As I see it, this protectionist tactic is a way of ensuring prosperity within Europe, whilst hindering the development of the wider world. Why tie ourselves to a declining trade block (over the last 10 years, Antarctica and Europe have been the only continents to fail to grow economically) when there is an entire world to cooperate and trade with?

I find the EU’s treatment of its member states similarly appalling, particularly the treatment of Greece. I find that so many people see the EU as a harmless alliance of friendly nations, and neglect to consider the impact of EU policy (particularly within the monetary union) on countries who simply cannot withstand these neoliberal policies. Article 106 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union places restrictions on public ownership, whilst state aid, used to bail out struggling industries, is highly limited within the EU.

Finally, the democratic deficit contributed to the judgement of many leave supporters. I recognise that there are issues with unelected decision makers within the UK, most notably the Lords and civil service, yet as a country often seen as the cradle of democracy, we should have the power to make our own decisions, rather than allowing unelected bureaucrats within the EU Commission to make decisions that affect the lives of millions. The decline of the national veto and rising prominence of qualified majority voting further contributes to this issue. Brexit is an opportunity to return sovereignty to the people.

I respect the rights of all those who continue to believe that we are better remaining within the EU-the arguments for ‘Remain’ were strong: a promise of unity, cooperation and tolerance. However, what I do oppose is the continued tarnishing of Brexiteers as ignorant fools. I would be the first to acknowledge that many people voted ‘Leave’ for misguided or prejudiced motivations. However, there remains a passionate group of Eurosceptics who have genuinely evaluated the arguments on both sides of the debate.

At no stage in this post have I referred to immigration, simply because I do not see it as a significant reason to vote Leave. In fact, I believe that a truly global Britain must embrace immigration, as we look beyond the EU and consider immigration based not on a lottery of birth.

You are free to disagree with Brexit, but please do not see all Brexiteers as old, uneducated and racist. It’s simply not true. I look forward to a new era of British politics, and hope that our entire nation, whether you voted leave or remain, can share in the prosperity that I believe we can soon embrace.

At a guess, I would suspect that those immigrants were originally from the Indian sub-continent?

YABU:
52%
YANBU:
48%
Total votes: 902

Your poll is currently 52/48. You couldn't make it up.

You are definitely not being unreasonable. It is so hard to move on.

It is so hard when you can see the immense benefits of being a leading force in a powerful successful trading bloc. So hard when you can see that bloc that turned our fortunes around, brought peace and gave us access to a market on our doorstep worth $18.8 trillion of 500 million consumers.

But let them own it.

The pound has plummeted. London has slipped in its financial centre status. Many businesses have closed or relocated. More will follow.

Perhaps its time that we are humbled as a nation. Perhaps its time we learn humility and pay the price for centuries of hubris.

Its just a shame that those of us who really didn't want this will have to face the job losses, family visa heartaches and so on.

What's the point in still being upset?
There is a lot to be upset about, especially if you have family and friends who are EU nationals.

My business depends on EU trade. We are over there this weekend relocating our business. Our workforce don't know yet , they will be out of s job by the end of the year. I suspect this story is a common one. My heart is broken

voted for what i believed to be best for the country, long term (not, I think best for my generation, but I believe best for 50, 100 years and so on).
Can you explain how it will be bettet for the country in 100 years and also why you would vote for something whee it will take 50 or 100 years to see the benefit. Surely that means your children and probably your grandchildren will suffer. Sorry but I juts do not understand your reasoning at all

No one actually is drawing offensive comparisons to the Holocaust. What we are saying that it's a slippery slope which is very easy to go down. The Germans in the early decades of the last century were a cultured, educated population, yet somehow they descended into barbarism. If it could happen to them, it could happen to us all, and ought to be a particularly pertinent reminder since the last two days have seen the commemorations for the Liberation of Auschwitz.