to find it impossible to forgive Brexiters

[mrsmootoo]

Can't forgive Brexiters for voting Leave. Find it impossible to move on from this. If there are any positives about leaving EU (?!) they are far outweighed by Remaining. Brexit posts on social media are so aggressive and unpleasant - you lost get over it. Really concerned about my kids' prospects, not being able to travel/work abroad as easily etc.

derxa

Tbh, so few people know IRL, I’m not sure. Some of my family friends know, and I would certainly say they are the sort to fret about the cost of travel insurance, yes. I’m not going to get into skin colour.

Otherwise, I’ve mostly discussed it on MN and yes, I do get a sense I’m being told off by people who are well off. And people who think I should think like Nish Kumar. Again, I won’t go into skin colour. It’s a mindset.

@MellowBird85

@IvyTrails calm down and stop being so hysterical. The UK is a democratic, liberal country and will NEVER be fascist. You’ve put (tick) next to each of your points but not backed it up with any real evidence at all. Come on.

The items I put tick next to are so damn obvious I didn't think they needed a citation. Others I did make a point for.

Democratic and liberal, I don't really think so. It's a veneer on top of the nastiness you'd see if you peeled it off. 'No blacks no dogs no Irish' notices on lettings were in my living memory, and much racism in all fields has continued. Increased since the referendum campaign to the extent we had an MP murdered. Attacks on EU27 and EEA citizens have soared.

The yellow jacketed thugs in Westminster attacking Anna Soubrey, the Yaxley Lennon fans letting loose with violence on the streets and using Nazi salutes. A small leave march in London last autumn led by a seig heiling man in a union jack suit. This is not a comfortable place.

I don't give a fuck any more why they voted how they did. Time for them to own it now.

Don't be surprised, then, when you find yourself mystified why people keep voting against their self-interest and you are powerless to do anything about it.

I reckon we've got about 15 years of Tory rule before the Left gather enough humility to overcome their righteous anger and start actually listening.

I don’t need your forgiveness thanks.

moderate I'm not sticking around to find out, as it happens. But it's got nothing to do with the humility of the left. If a bunch of idiots want to vote for maximum self harm and then cry that the left somehow made them do it then hell mend them.

Maxnormal

I've spend years reading the views of Leavers and I've yet to have read anything that's changed my mind. I've read a great deal of gloating and hostility however.

I would put it to you that you haven’t really listened to why people voted leave and understood their reasoning without automatically going back to your current way of thinking

E.g. if someone says they are worried about immigration

You don’t question ‘why’ they might think that, whether there is good reason to worry about immigration levels, what impact you have truthfully seen in your own lifetime of immigration

You just go straight to ‘racist’

Is it racist to say we cannot have unlimited immigration?
Is it racist to say that we want a national identity with British values?

@MasakaBuzz

The mentality of the Remainers on here are making me very, very glad I am a Leaver.

And every single day I'm glad I voted Remain. Brexit is all yours.

they'll be able to spend 90 days out of 180, rolling, so six months of the year. If they go now they can secure residency there if that's what they wish.

No, they want to winter 6 months there and summer 6 months in the UK. They don't want to be residents there. They have been but now want to do the 50:50 thing with UK as their main base.

nobodyimportant you're right, that option has now been taken from them

A very insular point of view.

I do find those reports interesting @ScreamingLadySutch and it makes me less pessimistic, but I suppose my question would be is are those trends likely to continue post Brexit?

My brother has applied for an EU country passport which luckily he's entitled to (I'm not as we have different fathers). He's had to to keep his job options in scientific research open. As other posters have said if an employer has a choice between someone who can pop across to conferences in Paris, Prague, Madrid etc at short notice, go and do a few months placement or training etc as a right and someone who will need time consuming paperwork and costs meeting, who will get the job?

This really bothers me too. In contrast to dual EU citizens my DCs will be at a disadvantage in the job market post uni. That's shit and I haven't heard anyone addressing it as an issue at all.

Someone I know's DH voted leave and she voted remain. Then she went to apply for Irish citizenship for her DC's after the vote. Husband was happy about that though. Bit like Nigel F and his kids

If her moving to be with you was so important why the hell didn’t you sort it out already? Was nearly 4 years not enough? You knew this was coming

There could be any number of reasons why it wasn't possible to do that yet, for eg not being able to afford to/still working and not yet able to retire etc. Life is never simple.

hamster who said anything about unlimited immigration? The UK could easily have controlled the number of EU immigrants as most other EU countries do, they chose not to.

What is a "national identity with British valyes" exactly?
Because the view from Remain boring, SNP voting Scotland is of an England dictating to the rest of us.

The UK could easily have controlled the number of EU immigrants as most other EU countries do agreed but Blair and co didn’t, so we are where we are. We can’t rewind time/ the establishment brought this on themselves

Don't be surprised, then, when you find yourself mystified why people keep voting against their self-interest and you are powerless to do anything about it.

This kind of self importance and your apparent knowledge of how others should vote is why it has turned into the shitshow. After 3 years and you keep spouting this is not others who lack critical thinking, nor intelligence.

This time frame will go down in history, it won't be just because of the right leaning politically being out of touch, it will be remembered like orwell is, the middle class 'socialist' who speaks for those worse off if they keep their mouth shut and vote the way they want to, it was relevent for orwell, it is painfully relevant after brexit and the past 2 elections.

It isn't others turkeys voting for christmas, it's you being 'I'm alright jack' cloaked under the Mary whitehouse stance of 'Think of the children'

It's like the rabid remainers on twitter, spent the last 3 years joking about passports and now offended by a 50p and wanting to start a motion of drawing nazi symbols, throw them in a river.

It isn't only one side causing division, history will look comically and poorly on both sides, especially as it is all online, on mn you can change your username, enough has been saved so that neither side can pretend they didn't come out with extreme divisive stuff.

It's just comical at this point.

Brexit is now OWNED by the Brexit people. Let them explain how wonderful it will be.

As you can see, I have name changed and am now a Rejoiner rather than a Remainer. LOL.

Sad times, and if it is good times, I wish someone would tell me how that is. The Gov, Cummings, DXeu, the red tops and Daily Mail and all the rest of it have parked it.

Are we afraid to confront them or what? No, we are being led by the nose. Boris says say nothing more about the B word, and suddenly, there is silence.

Glad I got out of UK last year, best decision I have ever made. UK was good to me, as I was to it too let it be said, but NO.

Bye bye and will watch from my safe haven as to how it goes. It might go really well, I don't care. Stability is what I craved. And now I have it.

Au Revoir, et Bon Soiree.

@ConcernedAuntie

My views were not influenced by a red bus, what I read in the papers, social media or the Russians.

How do you know they weren't?

The stuff around us all has an influence, advertising works, that's why it's a billion dollar business, it influences us even when we don't think it does. You are very, very naive if you think none of this noise around us, including Russia interference, has any affect on you.

So if it all comes good are we allowed to treat you with the disdain you're reserving for those with the opposing view to yours?

You don’t question ‘why’ they might think that, whether there is good reason to worry about immigration levels, what impact you have truthfully seen in your own lifetime of immigration

Unfortunately, the argument over immigration was used to stir up anti EU feeling when the reality is that we could control levels of immigration whilst remaining in the EU, but we chose not to. Have a look at some of the myth-busting sites and what they have to say about immigration. Here's one infacts.org/mythbusts/migrants-arent-taking-benefits/

The fact is, overall immigrants to the UK contribute more than they take up. In fact, they generally contribute more in taxes than native-born British. Our schools and the NHS will suffer if we cut immigration levels. It's not immigrants draining our services - it's the government underfunding them and then blaming immigrants.

Is it racist to say that we want a national identity with British values?

It's not racist but it's often quite xenophobic. What do you mean by a national identity and why do you feel it's threatened? I know people who don't like seeing non-white faces around whereas it doesn't remotely bother me. I quite enjoy listening to people speak something other than English. I do not feel threatened by these things. I recognise that British culture is mixed and diverse. I'm happy with this.

E.g. if someone says they are worried about immigration

Every single person I know irl who is worried about EU immigration has based those concerns on fundamentally racist beliefs such as 'they all claim benefits'. Every single one of them.

So if it all comes good are we allowed to treat you with the disdain you're reserving for those with the opposing view to yours?

Go ahead. A. I wouldn't notice a difference. Farage and his ilk are already embarrassingly disrespectful. B. the chances of it coming good are so minimal, I'm really not sure I'm taking any risk at all.

MaxNormal
I've read a great deal of gloating and hostility however.

And much of that has come from remainers.

hamster

We already have the powers we need through the EU to control EU immigration, our government is just choosing not to exercise them (probably because EU immigrants are net contributors).

"THE FoM (Freedom of Movement) directive allows for the "old" countries to restrict the rights of migrants from "new" countries for up to 7 years. The powers vary from stopping migration completely or allowing only for selected categories of work on a work permit basis. In 2004 the UK choose not to use this option at all, when the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia joined. The UK was one of only 3 of the original EU members (UK, Sweden and Eire) to choose not to apply transitional restrictions on these eight countries.

EU CITIZENS MUST BE SELF-SUPPORTING. After 3 months in the UK EU migrants need to be either working, have a member of the family working or have sufficient funds to live (and have full sickness insurance). If not then they can be returned to their home country."

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/richard-bird/immigration-blame-the-uk-_b_13120104.html

Even Leavers song shows them up for what they are.

Leavers have - 17 million fuck offs
Remainers have - Ode to Joy

Says it all really.

@vanhi

You offer purely economic arguments about immigration.

For most Brexit voters, this isn’t about economics, it’s much more emotional. It’s about communities, traditions and national identity

Your post tells me you haven’t listened to people