Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to find it impossible to forgive Brexiters

1000 replies

mrsmootoo · 29/01/2020 16:53

Can't forgive Brexiters for voting Leave. Find it impossible to move on from this. If there are any positives about leaving EU (?!) they are far outweighed by Remaining. Brexit posts on social media are so aggressive and unpleasant - you lost get over it. Really concerned about my kids' prospects, not being able to travel/work abroad as easily etc.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
IvyTrails · 29/01/2020 20:22

Thinking about the sadly polarised positions we have now. A PP referred to remainers not losing with grace.

This of course has been a fundamental loss to many. More than a win/lose situation in a sporting match. We lose rights, homes in other EU countries, jobs, funding streams, seeing our friends subjected to xenophobic abuse. Families not being able to support each other and frequently be together across borders.

All due to the vote of 37% of the electorate in a corrupt referendum that was only ever advisory. Despite what Cameron said.

Had everything been handled very differently as soon as the results were in we could have been reconciled. had Cameron said, 'It's very close' we'll have to take this away to look at it' and worked out some sort of compromise like Norway did, had May acknowledged the illegalities of the Leave campaign we could be in a very different place.

Instead of which we UK remainer citizens were vilified as traitors and saboteurs, citizens of nowhere. EU citizens were told they were bargaining chips, that they had outstayed their welcome.

Really, I am too tired now to be angry anymore, it's a matter of survival and joining the associate membership and rejoin campaigns.

ConcernedAuntie · 29/01/2020 20:24

I voted for Brexit and according to some people that makes me thick, a racist and a xenophobe. Everyone is entitled to their views as I am to mine. My views were not influenced by a red bus, what I read in the papers, social media or the Russians. I don’t think that the UK is any better than anywhere else. I never thought the process of leaving would be simple. I have no particular political affiliations, I have voted Liberal/Liberal Democrat, Labour, Conservative and Green in my time. We also need to co-operate with the rest of Europe, indeed the world, on many issues. So why did I vote Leave?

Waste of money, when so many are in need. For example, does the EU parliament really need to move between Brussels and Strasbourg every month? Some put this cost at £150m per annum. How much does it cost the EU to give protected status to things like Cornish pasties? Are there not more important things to worry about? We all need to co-operate on the big things but the involvement in the minutiae must cost countless millions.

I never believed that the whole amount we sent to the EU every week, whether it be £350m or any other figure, would automatically be sent to the NHS. Out of that amount would have to come things like agricultural subsidies and scientific research grants. However, as we pay more in than we get out, then whatever is left over from the aforementioned could go to things like the NHS.

Whilst I appreciate that the EU has done a lot in terms of things like workers’ rights and protections, the fact that there are currently 28 countries (and this is likely to rise) means that community wide regulations do not always work well in every country. There is also no reason why we couldn’t preserve those rights out of Europe and if a party sought to reduce those rights then we could vote them out. I believe that it is the eventual aim for the EU to become one entity and I really worry that in the future people will become angry with one size fits all politics and regulations and somewhere down the line there will be an almighty revolution leading to death and destruction. History has already shown us this can happen, as with the break-up of the Soviet Union and the former Yugoslavia. Whilst most people are happy to live with their neighbours they also want to be French, Italian, or whatever, and we should be able to celebrate our differences.

In the UK we already have a population outside of the M25 bubble who believe that Westminster does not listen to them. If all rule-making moves to Brussels (or Strasbourg, depending on the time of the month, as it were) how many more people will feel disenfranchised? President Macron has already stated that he would not give the French people the opportunity to vote on leaving the EU as he believes they would want to do so.

We were last given a chance to vote regarding the EEC which bears no resemblance to the current EU. We in the UK were never given a vote on things like Maastricht and the Lisbon Treaty. I feel that if we continue to be a member we do not know what is likely to be brought in in the future and I fear that ordinary people will have no say. It is all very well to say that we would have representatives in the EU Parliament but they no more listen the views of ordinary people than our own Parliament. I really do not think it will end well and it really troubles me.

Immigration. I do not want people who have settled here to be “sent back” (unless convicted criminals), nor do I truly have anything against individuals wherever they come from. However, the numbers do worry me. We do not have infinite resources.

There is a housing problem. We do need more houses but it is all very well to say just build more and all will be well but this effects our environment, the very air we breathe. We physically cannot keep absorbing the numbers we have recently been experiencing. We have to be able to provide and care for everyone already here. If we build on all available land how will we ever come close to growing enough food for everyone? People need transport, more roads mean more pollution. Water – concerns have only recently been raised about water supplies. The more people, the more we need, what will happen in times of drought which are likely to increase with climate change? What will happen to our wildlife if their habitat is built on? Humans don’t have the monopoly on somewhere to live.

I am not saying that no-one should ever be allowed to come and live here (whether EU or RoW). If we have a need for certain workers then we have a need, but for the sake of where we live and the air we breathe we have to take control of it.

Finally, people from the UK have lived and worked in the rest of the world for hundreds of years and I don’t see how not being in the EU will stop that from happening. OK, it may involve a bit more effort but if it is what you want and the country involved are happy to accept you, why not?

Sorry for the rant but if my views stated above make me thick, racist and a xenophobe then I guess I will just have to accept it.

And no, I will not be going out to 'celebrate' on Friday evening.

Frokni · 29/01/2020 20:26

I am a leaver as it's right for my childrens future
I am a remainer as it's right for my childrens future
I am a leaver because i want what's best for me
I am a remainer because i want what's best for me
I voted leave to improve the economy
I voted remain to improve the economy

I think it's time to see what happens and see where we are 5 years down the line. Losing sleep over a democratic (if not corrupted voting system) isn't helpful to anyone.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 29/01/2020 20:26

ConcernedAuntie are you me?!

Livelovebehappy · 29/01/2020 20:27

Op, I haven’t asked for your forgiveness, nor do I want it or expect it. I’m going to wake up on Saturday and look forward to what lies ahead of us. It isn’t going to be easy or plain sailing, but I’m pretty confident all will be okay and we will all be able to look back and laugh at all the doom and gloom prophesies we’ve had thrown at us over the last few years. Too many people allowing themselves to wallow in negativity.

MorrisZapp · 29/01/2020 20:28

Would all of this inability to move also apply between Scotland and England if we went independent? Or would our kids still have London and all the glittering English cities and to choose from?

hamstersarse · 29/01/2020 20:28

I voted remain and I’m horrified about how many people are still so angry and bitter about the fact we are leaving.

I’m totally behind leaving now. I understand why people voted for Brexit and I’m excited for the future, genuinely.

If you take the time to understand why people voted leave, rather than just denounce them as bigots and idiots, you might be surprised. I was.

I have very little respect for people unable to listen to views that oppose their own, ironically it shows small mindedness.

Lifeisgenerallyfun · 29/01/2020 20:29

For the sake of your mental wellbeing you need to move on. Accept people hold different views to you ( look on the umpteen previous threads to see the positive).

Accept that nothing stays the same political, economic, cultural alliance ebb and flow, rise and fall. This is just another example in the history of the world of this happening.

Look at the fall of the eastern bloc/iron curtain less than 30 years ago (a much bigger event than what’s happening now) in a few years time some other borders and alliances will change. New borders and alliances will rise out of the ashes.

Even if we had remained in 10 years time the relationship the U.K. would have had with the rest of the EU would look very different just as it looked different in 2015 to 2005.

I’m not sure it’s healthy to resent others from exercising their democratic right because their views differ from yours or resent change that doesn’t tie into the shape of the future you envisage.

If you continue being angry over things you can’t control it will have dire consequences for your mental health.

Frokni · 29/01/2020 20:30

Footnote: it is corrupt across the board.

MarySidney · 29/01/2020 20:30

that would be the single currency that we chose not to take part in?

Yes. And your point is?

And I would have voted Leave if given the opportunity any time since Maastricht. I was looking for the Remain campaign to change my mind and convince me to vote Remain. They didn't.

SpecLosers · 29/01/2020 20:31

I know I am now a Rejoiner, in due course.... but I thought the Meps singing Auld Lang Syne today in the EU Parliament tonight was quite emotional. I doubt anyone wins.

I hope they keep the light on in Brussels, to guide us all back.

MaxNormal · 29/01/2020 20:31

@nobodyimportant they'll be able to spend 90 days out of 180, rolling, so six months of the year. If they go now they can secure residency there if that's what they wish.

DukeChatsworth · 29/01/2020 20:32

Democracy means accepting the result when the vote goes against at you.

If you believe in democracy at least believe that you should accept the outcome. Even if you’re not happy about it.

TabbyMumz · 29/01/2020 20:33

"Living in a democracy doesn't mean we all have to fall in line and agree with what was voted for. Some people's reasons for voting for Brexit are pretty abhorrent, should I just accept that and forgive it?"
Well..yes. What are your options here? Unless there is a revolt? It's happening, so not much you can do about it, other than waste your life being angry.

Livelovebehappy · 29/01/2020 20:33

concernedauntie absolutely spot on.

Theworldisfullofgs · 29/01/2020 20:33

Waste of money, when so many are in need

Waste of money having to set up another drugs agency, pay for more trade negotiators...do you know how many more civil servants are being employed? How much money is being spent on infrastructure? How much money has been spent on elections because we destabilise the kingdom? And on and on...

MaxNormal · 29/01/2020 20:34

hamstersarse I've spend years reading the views of Leavers and I've yet to have read anything that's changed my mind. I've read a great deal of gloating and hostility however.

BoxedWine · 29/01/2020 20:35

It's bizarre that people feel the urge to tell us how confident they are and how much faith they have that things will be ok, that we'll still be able to do X etc. That's nice and all but unless you have any particular knowledge or specialism to back it up, and none of you have yet given any indication that you do, nobody cares.

Evilspiritgin · 29/01/2020 20:36

The op who was complaining that her elderly mother wouldn’t be able to go and live with her in the eu country she lives in?

If her moving to be with you was so important why the hell didn’t you sort it out already? Was nearly 4 years not enough? You knew this was coming

DukeChatsworth · 29/01/2020 20:39

I read this quote once in an article and it stayed with me:

“It is tempting to believe that the most important characteristic of a democracy is the desire and determination to win both the battle of ideas and elections. The reality is exactly the opposite. What makes democracy thrive is the acceptance by all parties that their ideas may not prevail. It is the determination to win at any cost that puts us on the path to totalitarianism.”

MasakaBuzz · 29/01/2020 20:39

The mentality of the Remainers on here are making me very, very glad I am a Leaver.

Most of you are coming over as completely deranged.

There was a vote. Both sides lied. Anyone who doesn’t think politicians lie, regardless of hue shouldn’t be let loose with a vote.

The outcome of that vote was to leave.

Goodbye

MarySidney · 29/01/2020 20:39

ConcernedAuntie Great post.

Livpool · 29/01/2020 20:39

I agree OP

Clavinova · 29/01/2020 20:40

43% voted for the Tories. So Remain parties got a big majority percentage wise...Well, not really, unless you consider ‘neutral’ labour as a remain party.

Labour is a leave party - well, according to the Lib Dems:

Layla Moran
"Labour are NOT a Remain party."

Tom Brake:
"The truth is that Labour is a Leave party."
"While the Lib Dems voted in favour of a People's Vote 8 times and put down 18 amendments arguing for a People's Vote, Labour have abstained on or voted against votes on a People's Vote 6 out of 8 times."

Jo Swinson
'Labour and the Tories “merge into one” on Brexit.'

KenDodd · 29/01/2020 20:40

Well..yes. What are your options here? Unless there is a revolt? It's happening, so not much you can do about it, other than waste your life being angry.

The campaign to rejoin has already started, that's what I can do about it. I will never shut up about it. Our young people are overwhelmingly anti Brexit, they will put this right.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.