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to find it impossible to forgive Brexiters

1000 replies

mrsmootoo · 29/01/2020 16:53

Can't forgive Brexiters for voting Leave. Find it impossible to move on from this. If there are any positives about leaving EU (?!) they are far outweighed by Remaining. Brexit posts on social media are so aggressive and unpleasant - you lost get over it. Really concerned about my kids' prospects, not being able to travel/work abroad as easily etc.

OP posts:
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AllergicToAMop · 29/01/2020 19:25

Newsflash: not everyone British is in the UK. Applying for a second nationality so that I can continue to live in peace in my EU husband's country has cost be about a thousand pounds so far and untold stress, and mine is a simple case.

Newsflash. If you see I talked about UK. EU citizens in UK. I wasn't making sweeping statements about all EU.

Cam77 · 29/01/2020 19:26

Irony is his kids almost certainly have German passports, and he retains most of the benefits of being an EU citizen by being an EU spouse!

Figmentofmyimagination · 29/01/2020 19:26

always follow the money

Yes. It is undoubtedly the case that a small minority of the already extremely wealthy will make vast sums out of this.

I don’t think anyone ever disputed this.

derxa · 29/01/2020 19:28

derxa you're being unfair considering that you've had a lit of sympathy about the farming situation from remainers. And a lot of people crowing about farming being completely destroyed by Brexit based on one random report by Patrick Minford. The crowing wasn't aimed directly at me but it did get me down. I can't do anything about Brexit but I want to face the future with optimism.
It's my own fault for going on any Brexit threads including this one.
I wish everyone on here all the best. x

easyandy101 · 29/01/2020 19:31

I'm a big fan of Europe as a union of people, i think it's a great idea and ultimately inevitable that this is how the world will go

I also think hating people for holding a mainstream political view is pretty much what's wrong with this country, this world and the general state of political discourse, it's pathetic, and evident in both sides of the debate

I have very strongly held political views, but the notion of disliking someone because they hold legitimate albeit different views is fucking baffling to me

derxa · 29/01/2020 19:31

derxa To be frank, you come across as dishonest and transparent.
That's some statement Grin

CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate · 29/01/2020 19:32

Thanks @ScreamingLadySutch perusing the links!

BoxedWine · 29/01/2020 19:33

As I stated above I voted Remain with 100% conviction I was right but ironically the pro Remain threads on MN have turned me towards Brexit. All the bile and nastiness was awful at times. And people whining about the Erasmus scheme... give me strength.

That says more about you than it does about the people you're criticising.

Irony is his kids almost certainly have German passports, and he retains most of the benefits of being an EU citizen by being an EU spouse!

Yes, he's alright Jack. Although tbf, even if they didn't, they come from money. So it matters less. If you're rich enough you always have freedom of movement.

MarySidney · 29/01/2020 19:34

Leavers spent 40 years trying to derail the vote that took us into Europe in the first place.

Wanting to have a vote is vastly different from trying to overturn the result of a vote because you don't like it.

And a lot of people who wanted a referendum voted to stay first time, in the belief that we were voting to join a Common Market. We didn't vote to join a European Union with a single currency, a parliament, an anthem, and all the rest of it.

People say Leavers didn't know what they were voting for. Well, we sure as hell didn't know what we were voting for back then.

avocadotofu · 29/01/2020 19:35

I totally understand how you feel, I'm really struggling to come to terms with it too.

derxa · 29/01/2020 19:36

That says more about you than it does about the people you're criticising. And another. Gosh.

Notodontidae · 29/01/2020 19:36

@CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate, when we joined the common market, the views were much the same as yours now. We were shunning the commonweath countries as the shops were advertising New Zealand Butter, New Zealand Lamb, Canadian Cheddar, etc. None of us were confident about deals with European Countries, Cox's apples seem to turn into French Golden Delicious, and you couldn't buy a 1lb of sprouts. Nothing will change here for a year anyway, and busineses between european countries and the UK will still trade, otherwise we are picking our nose to spite our face, and businese dont do that, they make trade deals. Stop worrying, and embrace the democratic result.

larrygrylls · 29/01/2020 19:36

The UK needs Europe, Europe needs the UK. For anyone with the tiniest ability to look through the noise and see the big picture, far less will change than people imagine unless both sides make a massive mistake.

There will be no post Brexit ‘hell’ , neither will there be the ‘sunlit uplands’. We will have marginally more freedom to legislate and make external trade deals and marginally worse trading with the EU.

VideographybyLouBloom · 29/01/2020 19:37

Move to a different country then! You’ve had 3 years to move to another European country so why didn’t you? Also if you dislike democracies that much I suggest you try North Korea or Venezuela.

I voted remain by the way but I’m being a grown up in accepting that 17.5 million people didn’t!

BingoLittlesUncle · 29/01/2020 19:38

I'm a remainer and all I can say is "Get over it."

BoxedWine · 29/01/2020 19:38

And another. Gosh.

Well, if you will post it...

TheHagOnTheHill · 29/01/2020 19:39

And many remainders only voted to keep the status quo,you didn't have to understand all the issues or even think about it much to vote.
As for what happens now,well we can wallow inisery and make if fail,that's easy.The hither path is to pull together and make the best of it.

IwantToDatePicard · 29/01/2020 19:43

I agree there is life beyond the EU. I voted to leave, am optimistic about the future and am not looking for forgiveness.

user1471448556 · 29/01/2020 19:43

I’d be OK about it if us could retain our EU citizenship by opting in to pay an EU tax as individuals. That way we could insulate ourselves against the negative aspects of Brexit as individuals (although that wouldn’t help my company much). Unfortunately that looks unlikely so we get dragged out against our will. I’m never going to be happy about it ... but won’t blame leave voters. This is on Boris and his gang - it’s their sh&t to deal with - they sold it, they own it.

BoxedWine · 29/01/2020 19:44

It would be lovely if our communal attitudes were going to be the thing that decide whether Brexit will be a failure. They aren't. We don't have anything like that level of autonomy and influence. It's the trade negotiations that'll do it, and the general British public have no way of impacting them. The amount of sunshine we all decide to shit or not shit simply isn't that influential.

flirtygirl · 29/01/2020 19:45

Yes leavers don't need forgiveness and remainers do not need to offer it.

The remainer who mentioned turning inward and just getting on with their family life. I think that's what will happen more and more.

It's a fracture that even when it seems to be healed, will still be there as people feel they can't trust and don't have anything in common, with a large proportion of the UK population.

It's the same thing, friends and family of the disabled feel when the tories got in again. That no one is listening and that no-one cares. It most be what the homeless feel.

The people who don't care have won via fptp and the people who did care can no longer be bothered to care or allow themselves to care as they are having to turn their focus more inward (so they can get themselves and their family sorted.)

After years of tory government and Brexit, I simply did not trust a lot of the British public. They would rather harm others to simply be the one doing the kicking, instead of getting the kicking. They are happy to vote to make themselves poorer and their own lives harder as long as others have it worse too.

It's horrible. So I won't offer forgiveness and yes leavers do not need my forgiveness or anyone elses. I however will do what I have always done when I find people are lacking, shortsighted and mean. I avoid them, I become insular, I keep myself to myself.

Many people are feeling like this now and it's a natural response, people have spoken about stopping volunteering and going to work but not getting involved beyond the basic, etc. They are disenfranchised and this is far worse than the vitriol on both sides of Brexit, as this will not change in 2 or 5 or 10 years.

This will affect the UK far more as communities are even more fractured but what else can people do, when they no longer feel able to engage and when they feel that there is no point offering anything over and above the bare minimum?

Miljea · 29/01/2020 19:47

Thing is, the year previous to the Referendum, 6.8% of people stated that their chief concern was the EU.

6.8%

No one cared. Till they were carefully made to care.

Honestly, Leavers. How many of you gave a rat's arse? Until you were told to.

WheresMyChocolate · 29/01/2020 19:52

Are other countries going to stop British people working there or travelling there?

The country I live in has a law which requires jobs go to nationals or EU citizens first. Post brexit a British person would still be allowed to work here only if the employer could prove that they couldn't recruit anyone from within the EU.

raskolnikova · 29/01/2020 19:53

Think about living in a country where there is war,or poverty and get some perspective on life.

Okay so leaving aside the fact that there is poverty in this country, this kind of line always appears on Brexit threads. So when people are angry about future trade deals, job losses, loss of FOM or workers' rights, etc, they get told, 'Well it's better than the famine in Yemen or ISIS in Syria!' Talk about setting a low bar. So standards and rights are taken away, but we have to be thankful because at least it's not North Korea Hmm

ScreamingLadySutch · 29/01/2020 19:54

"Why don't we have a referendum um the death penalty for example? Because the dumb-fucks would vote to restore it in their millions. "

Yes. Lets have a 'rehabilitation vs punishment' debate.

Professor Thomas Sowell of Stanford University showed through US Census statistics, exactly what happened when the Morally Anointed imposed their Vision of rehabilitative justice on the West in the 1960s.

Crime, across all 3 statistics (murder, robbery, violent crime) exploded. And in the graphs, the correlation to 1960 is pretty spectacular.

But you call the Silent Majority who instinctively know that making some choices very painful, makes those choices less desirable [cost/benefit analysis] 'dumb fucks'.

Its strange, but there are TWO recent governments that empirically show that punishment has a marked impact on violent crime.
But because they are not approved of governments, the evidence is dismissed.
One government is the Taliban who hanged miscreants. Crime in Afghanistan plummeted overnight. [please do not come to the lazy conclusion that this 'approves' of the Taliban. Focus on action/equal and opposite reaction. ]
The other government is the Islamic state of Somalia (hanging pirates. The rate of piracy plummeted. The Ethiopian army drove this government out, and the rate of piracy in the Red Sea rapidly climbed back to its previous levels. Until Russia [and other countries] actively hunted them. Many a pirate from Egypt to Mauritius was chucked into the sea with chains around their ankles, at which time they decided it had ceased be rewarding. Which is why we don't hear about Red Sea pirates and their ransom demands any more). TRUE FACTS, so please save your moralistic screeching.

Why is crime low in Islamic states? Because criminals are not understood, they are punished.

Liberal human rights theory is going to be just a blip in human history.

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