To be shocked by people's partners?

[ReallyLilyReally]

SO MANY of the threads i read about new parents include women struggling hugely to cope with their babies, and when asked if there's a DP on the scene who can help, they say that he's just not interested/won't do night feeds/is too busy etc and that theyve already tried to get him to pitch in and he won't.

Call me stupid, but i cannot for the life of me work out why these women have had kids with men they can't rely on for support. What the hell kind of decision making is that? AIBU to think that it's bad parenting to knowingly give a kid a useless dad?

My dh changed a lot after first child born. He saw himself in a different role. I was no longer a joint breadwinner and he reverted instantaneously to the role his father had played with his stay at home mother. Completely lazy and only cherry picking the activities he wanted to do with the baby which meant spending a few minutes interacting with him or pushing the pram when walking down the road with friends so he could look like the involved father. My view is it is down to a sense of power as the sole breadwinner. Some men change when the balance of power shifts. I couldnt have predicted this as he was charming when we first met. The only warning sign with hindsight was the dynamic of his mother and father as he mother was somewhat controlled and bullied by his father but he assured me at the time he never wanted to be like his father!

I agree Op. It's too easy to find excuses after the event.

In this day and age, is it really so common to have a baby 'by accident'? I really doubt that rape or failed contraception is quite that common.

Whilst I do agree that some men don't show their true colours until their partner is pregnant or there's a child in the house, most will have given clear signs beforehand. We shouldn't let women out of their responsibility for making the decision to get pregnant. If you aren't sure of your partner, don't do it.

OP does have a point. A lot of partners are shit well before a baby comes, but women put on the blinkers and carry on regardless.

Of course, plenty of men do do a 180 and become on a lesser scale, lazy and useless, and on a larger scale, abusive and nasty, once a baby is born.

But, a lot of men are shit to begin with. Some women think they can change them. Then, when they can't, they don't want to admit that it's their fault their child (usually children though because why stop at 1 when he's a crap dad?) has an awful, lazy and non interested father.

People don't like admitting that, though. It's easier to jump on the genuinely awful abuse bandwagon and pile in with women who are battered black and blue, denyed friends, controlled over money etc than admit it was their fault that, say, a man in his 30s with no job, no money, no work ethic... a man who's messy and thinks it's the women's job to feed, clothe and pay for him, would be a good guy to have 3 kids with.

I only agree in the sense that I dont understand why women have multiple children with useless men/fathers. I can completely see that a man could change once he becomes a father in a way that a woman wasnt expecting. I really dont get (outside of abuse/coercive control) why you would then choose to have more.

Call you stupid?

Ok, you're stupid.

Yabu. Some are useless before and after. some change after kids. Regardless the women are the ones who have to live and deal with the realities of this and you do not. So be happy that your life is perfect op. I admire women of all situations because let's be honest is hard enough being a woman at the best of times!

I think YABU if it's the first baby OP. Its hard to know how good a parent someone will be before they are one. I do find it exasperating when women are on baby 2 or 3 with a useless partner though. There never seems to be a rational thought process behind it and they seem surprised that he is indeed still useless.

I mean, a guy doesnt suddenly change from being helpful and supportive to useless overnight when a kid is born, surely?

My ex did. He went to work one day a perfectly kind and supportive husband. He didn't come back that night. Later I found out that was his first date with OW. From that day on he was resentful, unkind and unsupportive. I didn't find out till years later though. So I always roll my eyes when people say you must have known. I definitely didn't and had no reason to.

Among my friendship group pre-kids: house / flat was generally tidy because both partners were working. Both partners did their fair share of cooking / washing up, maybe the woman did a bit more. Takeaways / dinner out pretty regularly e.g. Sunday meeting up for brunch. So an "equal share" of housework looked like cleaning the bathroom once a week each, keeping on top of dishes (of which there were few), bit of cooking mid week.

When the babies arrived most of the men continued to think that was what an "equal share" looked like - and were resentful that they weren't getting praised for it any more.

Awful, awful thread.

My first husband became abusive when I was pregnant. As I lay in bed at night he'd elbow in my side or back and tell me I was useless, that I'd be a shit parent, that my baby would be taken from me because of my bad parenting. It got worse and worse and escalated to kicking me and pinning me down by my throat.

I was so frightened and so ashamed of the situation I found myself in. I tiptoed round on eggshells trying not to trigger anything. I was young and vulnerable and had no support and didn't understand what was happening or how to get out.

Mumsnet wasn't around back then. The internet was only a baby. But if it had been, what effect do you think this thread would have had if I'd come here looking for help? It's reinforcing the abusive message that was being hammered into me. You're useless. You're a shit parent. It's all your fault.

Shame on you OP. Shame on you.

@FilthyforFirth because they want children and not necessarily with different men. Or to start all over again... They are brainwashed into thinking their husband is right... They think they can change him... They grew up in a similar environment and see it as normal....not all pregnancies are planned (failed contraceptive).... They might not have friends or family to help them to leave.... They think they have to be happy with what they have.... Social stigma of being a single mum....social stigma of having only one child... I could go on...

I dont really agree that any of those are a good enough reason to bring another child into the world. To have another child with the knowledge that they will have a shit father. Not to mention the potential impact on the existing child.

I didn't say they were a good enough reason... But they are reasons why it happens

In most cases, the signs were there beforehand.

Not all, though.

Honestly, one bloke I know, was amazing with his friends children; would be the one running around with them all at parties and the kids all adored "uncle Jimmy" but once he had his own child he was the worst dad I've ever met. He now had 5 children to 3 mothers and has lost a considerable number of friends. He doesn't see the middle 2 and barely sees the two eldest. No one would have guessed how bad a parent he'd turn out to be.

I think by his third partner it might have been noticeable? Or was he one of those who blames the Ex for not 'allowing' him to see his children?

For those of us who've escaped a relationship with a narcissistic abuser who at first appeared to be Prince Charming - thank you.

What we really want is for people to kick us while we're down and remind us that the entire situation is one of our own making, whilst also reminding us that those choices we've made make us bad parents as well.

If only you'd been around to tell me how stupid I was before I married him - could have saved me years of hell!

I mean, a guy doesnt suddenly change from being helpful and supportive to useless overnight when a kid is born, surely?

DSis ex did - they'd been together 6 years prior - she got pg he started having affairs and getting odd about money - once baby was here he was a nightmare - and he made her life hell for first few years.

Many people consider him a "good dad" becuase he hasn't disappeared of the scene completely -pays nothing or as little as he can get away with see his child when convenientfor him - and causes a huge amount of upset to his child now teen and Dsis when he can.

I used to be surpsied about women who had several children with useless man - but turns out even if they were great after first baby often when Mothers were suffering with their health - weren't always great with subsequent children even if they'd been ones pushing for them.

Then I met women who men had been great with the kids right up until they met soemone else and left relationship and suddenly had no interest with their own kids.

To be fair it's something that needs to be talked about more with young women/men. I don't think most couples have an explicit conversation about the division of labour or expectations once a baby arrives. They just fall into a pattern and depending on their personal histories it can be very destructive. Choosing a father for your children is the most important decisions a woman can make and will change the the course of her whole life.

@karencantobe, I've done both and looking after a newborn and toddler was so much easier. Not so much because kids are easier but because you have more control of your time with them.

Also I think in many cases, mother's tend to forget how much their partner to because they compare it with what they do.

When I left my ex, I assume it would be no different, but it's only then that I realised he had been doing more than Id given him credit for and life was definitely harder afterwards (although no regrets as issues were much deeper than him helping around the house).

Nice way to blame women for men’s inadequacies.

Why is it always the woman’s fault? It’s her fault in this instance because she didn’t choose a ‘better’ man, how about we turn our attentions to the guy in question who is being a useless Father and partner and call him out on it instead?

Cross post with @windycuntryside but my sentiments exactly.

AIBU to think that it's bad parenting to knowingly give a kid a useless dad?

You are blaming the woman and judging them on their 'decision making'.

WHY oh WHY can't you see the problem is the 'useless' man?

By blaming the woman the way you have you are enabling the continued uselessness of so many men.

They never have to take responsibility for their action/lack of action because people like you blame the woman and the the man gets off the hook.

Give me a break.

YOU and YOUR narrow minded attitude does not help.

@Dontdisturbmenow I think it depends on the baby and toddler. But I am genuinely surprised that anyone who is reasonably healthy finds commuting and working full-time by itself, totally exhausting. Sure if you are recovering from cancer or have some other serious health issue. But otherwise no. I have worked full-time for nearly 31 years.

I think by his third partner it might have been noticeable? Or was he one of those who blames the Ex for not 'allowing' him to see his children?

The first partner has moved away from the area, so he uses that as an excuse. It isn't, he was barely seeing the children when he lived round the corner. The second, yes he uses the 'psycho' ex, keeping from his children. It's everyone else's fault but his.