To think everyine has forgotten about next Frìday?

[malificent7]

Brexit isn't it? Im a remainer and i feel ok about it...at least my hysteria has died down. What about the rest of you?

You won't find any evidence of wage suppression.

We aren't part of schengen so the human trafficking stuff is bunkum too (you know they mostly don't come through passport control right ?).

In fact @WhereShallWeMoveTo your post is just a load of rubbish. Its just emotive clap trap

The government could have restricted FoM but didnt.
I keep reading this claim, but it is never substantiated - any debate of it seems to involve us adopting the ID card and admin systems of Belgium at massive expense.
But it's been great to be able to go through the shorter EU nationals queues at airports

In a whole year of flying to Dublin once a week the queue was only different once - and that time the EU queue was longer.

And all of that (disaster) is that evidence based? If so based on what apart from a touch of xenophobia? I hope you voted leave because you saw hard evidence that EU immigration was indeed responsible for all of that. Not merely on an assumption/bias?
I would genuinely be interested to see the data because most of what I've read suggests that EU workers are, in the vast majority, net contributors to the economy.

IMF that was quoted heavily by the likes of the guardian and by those being hysterical on mn came out a couple of days ago and said that the UK will outpace the EU after brexit for 2 years.

Well yeah, but that doesn't mean we somehow escaped an EU problem. It's because Brexit damaged us both. Lose / lose. UK and EU both still look pretty low compared to the other "Advanced Nations".

www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDP_RPCH@WEO/OEMDC/ADVEC/WEOWORLD/GBR/EURO

(BTW this link is very cool!)

I've yet to hear any.

Then you lack the critical thinking skills as to why some could vote for leave, maybe start with Benn and realise being eurosceptic has its roots in left wing ideology, then move on from there.

You can even look back at the predictions of even a vote for leave would cause a mass recession and mass job losses, you could look at the IMF moving predictions, the more likely answer is that you didn't want to accept any answers and relied on headlines from your specific media to tell you why the other was wrong instead of understanding the conversation.

why are you holding the EU responsible when the government could have imposed restrictions but didn't?

What restrictions did you have in mind? Deportation vans for any EU citizens without a job after 6 months? Something less hostile?

That IMF prediction for the UK is based on an orderly withdrawal from the EU, doesn't look like we are getting that.

Being Eurosceptic is both a left and right thing

Yes it would, but you are relying on the government of the day voting the way you want them to.

Which is also the case with unanimity surely? Your government can still vote in a way you don't want. But no worries, I just wanted to get it clarified that no one was proposing to remove member states' ability to veto in certain areas unless those states have actively agreed to the change.

Unlike my rights being removed against my wishes on Friday

Unlike my rights being removed against my wishes on Friday

The government of the day didn't vote the way you wanted them to...

It's a bit rich to claim not to be driven by self interest if you're comfortably off and can afford not to be.

Well I think that's a bit like Londoncentric chattering class socialist remainers with their EU migrant cleaners and nannies, telling working class people in post industrial or rural heartlands that they are thick and racist for voting Leave. They know nothing of their lives, their day to day struggles and the ways in which their communities have changed in the last 15 years.

Well yeah, but that doesn't mean we somehow escaped an EU problem. It's because Brexit damaged us both. Lose / lose. UK and EU both still look pretty low compared to the other "Advanced Nations".

What kind of whatabout is that, any negative prediction from the IMF for the previous 3 years was front page of the guardian, they have revised there predictions with just the same caveats.

The fact you have had to revert to 3 year old brexiteers comments about how it would impact the rest of the eu as well, is irony probably lost on you. Add on the fact that the germany/france is on a knife edge even with us being in the EU shows you are just championing partisan headlines and don't really have an understanding of the EU or 'other advanced nations'

I don't see the point in celebrating my loss of rights or the shit show coming Northern Ireland's way. If the Brexit lot want to, they are welcome to their moment in the sun. Seriously, enjoy it.

You've got a lot of fucking work ahead just to replace what you broke.

Completely anecdotally - I find it extremely hard to find anyone to do 'odd jobs' and the best guy I found was indeed an EU immigrant. He didn't take anyone's job tho as none of the British men around seemed interested at all. Most of my cleaners have been EU nationals again because they're very hard to find to start with! Currently with a very British cleaner who is lovely but totally unreliable. I've not heard of the EU flooding the streets with pimps, prostitutes or homeless people. When I worked at CAB the vast majority of people we saw (for debt/benefit advice etc) were very much British. I'm also very dubious re the idea that benefit fraud would be increased by EU workers.
Me and DH didn't have a job 'lined up'. We're now on 45k and 60k. Never claimed benefit apart from child benefit which we're now losing.
I've yet to see a British dentist and I don't think that's because British dentist are being pushed out...
All anecdotal tho.
If there is evidence of this EU burden I'd like to see it.

The government of the day didn't vote the way you wanted them to...

Indeed, but that is democracy. The EU has it, and so do we.

(Although I still have very serious concerns about the bait-and-switch applied to the 2016 referendum that allowed it to be run as advisory with light controls then treated as binding without any further consultation. This I firmly believe was NOT democratic as parliament were not given the opportunity to demand appropriate safeguards)

What kind of whatabout is that, any negative prediction from the IMF for the previous 3 years was front page of the guardian, they have revised there predictions with just the same caveats.

The fact you have had to revert to 3 year old brexiteers comments about how it would impact the rest of the eu as well, is irony probably lost on you. Add on the fact that the germany/france is on a knife edge even with us being in the EU shows you are just championing partisan headlines and don't really have an understanding of the EU or 'other advanced nations'

WTF? My comments are my own analysis based on the IMF site that I linked to!

I haven't forgotten, I'm just quietly getting on with my preparations to move away from this country and ever come back.

I haven't forgotten, but it's also my last day at work next Friday so that's on my mind too.

I'm a remainer and think we are making the biggest mistake in my lifetime of 50 years. I will never understand how and why the leavers think doing this could possibly improve their lives in any way.

The so called party next Friday arranged to rub our noses in the fact that we lost, (we have all lost actually, which will soon become apparent) confirms my suspicions about the nature of the people who voted leave.

I'm just quietly getting on with my preparations to move away from this country

Yes. We're lucky that this is an option that's open to us, workwise and so on and we're making plans as well.

Brexit - and the last GE in some respects - have left me feeling as though this country isn't the one I thought it was.

I'm tired of feeling angry at Brexit voters, disgusted by the political leadership and impotent at the prospect of this country moving further along a right-wing, isolationist path. It's a slow-moving catastrophe and a self-inflicted wound that won't heal for generations, potentially.

And I want my children to remain citizens of Europe, not just this bloody backward-looking, foolish, fucked-up country.

WTF? My comments are my own analysis based on the IMF site that I linked to!

So what is your relevance to the OP then?

You obviously don't like that you are repeating 3 year old brexiteer arguments about how it will hit the EU just as hard, ignored the 'advanced nations' argument, why did you post the article as some kind of rebuttal to what i said?

The UK's contributions vary by year, its better to look at the average, which between 2014 and 2018 they worked out at 7.7 billion net.

That depends on whose average you quote - the ONS average is £9.8bn net, the EU's average is £7.8bn;

"The UK’s annual five-year average (2014 to 2018) net contribution on this wider basis was £7.8 billion; lower than the £9.8 billion ONS estimate of the annual five-year average which only captures official transactions between the EU and the UK government."

The EU include 'off-budget' transactions to the private sector in their calculations but they don't include 'off-budget' payments we make to them - such as our contributions to the European Development Fund:

"The Commission also proposed bringing the 30 billion euro ($35.93 billion) European Development Fund under the EU budget, a move long called for by the European Parliament on the grounds that it would provide greater scrutiny over how funds are allocated.The EDF currently sits outside the EU’s official budget"...

"Some have argued that there are other payments that should be considered" - quite;

www.devex.com/news/eu-budget-battle-kicks-off-amid-single-instrument-concerns-92673

www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

Exactly what NeckPainChairSearch said.
Exactly that. Except I'm not tired of being angry at leave voters - I wish them nothing but the hardest of hardships tbh.
I've spent years voting for parties that I thought would bring about a fairer society even though financially voting tory would be beneficial to me. Brexit probably won't have that great an effect on me (no mortgage, savings, good pension, secure job, dual nationality) other than the price increases which I can probably weather.
But I've decided I now don't give a shit about anyone worse off than me that voted for this. There may be a few leave voters who felt they had solid reasons for voting the way they did. But I believe that in the main it was a racist vote. I acknowledge that not all leave supporters are racist, but all racists voted leave.

You obviously don't like that you are repeating 3 year old brexiteer arguments about how it will hit the EU just as hard,

I don't know what you think you know about me, but I absolutely think Brexit is bad for both the EU and the UK.

I do not think in the long term the EU will suffer as badly as us, but in the context of the IMF we are talking short term predictions

ignored the 'advanced nations' argument

"Advanced Nations" is one of the comparables on the link I posted, that's why I mentioned it.

why did you post the article as some kind of rebuttal to what i said?

The article? Did you even click on the link? . My comment isn't a rebuttal at all, it's adding extra context to yours. You mentioned IMF has UK predicted to outdo the EU, I added context to show that both UK and EU are lower than the overall advanced nations group, and commented that both UK and EU suffer impact from Brexit.

I really think you've read what you expected to see rather than what I said.

The EDF fund also doesn't get counted as EU contributions when spent here Clav.

I'll take the figure used by the Treasury not the ONS. Which is the 7.8 bn. This is far more accurate as it covers all transfers from the EU to the UK, your link from the ONS agrees (proving once again that you just desperately google stuff to back your point rather than reading all of it)

Your rather desperate attempt to bring in the EDF into this is hilarious as it wouldn't be counted as a payment to the EU either, and isn't included in our contribution.

silencebeforethebleeps me too.

We'll be exercising our freedom of movement while we still can. We are lucky to be in a position to.

There is zero reason why we can’t continue to attract the brightest and best people to the U.K. The difference is we will be able to control that based on our needs. We can also filter out the dross.

Masaka has encapsulated the Brexit dream in a nutshell. Keep out the 'dross' of humanity