To think everyine has forgotten about next Frìday?

[malificent7]

Brexit isn't it? Im a remainer and i feel ok about it...at least my hysteria has died down. What about the rest of you?

Don't be sad, just do the decent thing and get to the back of the food bank and NHS queues. And be the first to put your hand up when the redundancies come. Own your shit.

Hard to argue.

I veer between white hot fury at what is being taken and will be taken from me and sadness that so many people have been conned

Yes. Most of the people I know feel this way.

I haven't forgotten. I'm a remainer and I'm trying to ignore it and hope it's just a bad dream.

Its much more difficult to get a Visa to work in the EU than it is to move under freedom of movement.

Well of course it is. Anything is more difficult than freedom of movement.

It also means that UK nationals are less likely to get jobs in the EU.

Possibly, yes. But if they have the required skills and relevant experience they should be at no more of a disadvantage than any other non EU national. They may be at a disadvantage compared with EU nationals you can't have everything. It's a big world out there with 168 other countries to choose from.

We’ve got new coins coming out there’s that
And don't forget the blue passports.
And I'm staying in all day on Saturday for my unicorn delivery.

It's a big world out there with 168 other countries to choose from.

And the 27 nearest to us physically and culturally are being made considerably harder to access.

Thanks Brexit. Cheers for removing MY rights that I was perfectly happy with to satisfy YOUR issues with the EU.

How has freedom of movement been a disaster? What disaster has it actually caused??

Well I doubt if someone like @WhereShallWeMoveTo who is sufficiently well off to own a property abroad will be much impacted by any forthcoming austerity. It's a bit rich to claim not to be driven by self interest if you're comfortably off and can afford not to be.

@oblada too many immigrants probably. Or the wrong kind of immigrants.

It would be great to hear reasons for leaving that couldn’t be debunked with ten seconds on Google.

The UK's EU contributions are steadily rising - by 20% this year;

www.economicvoice.com/uk-contributions-to-the-eu-rocket-by-20/

The European Commission and France want to end EU Budget rebates;

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/12/eu-leaders-deadlocked-summit-budget-battle-exit-polls-predict/

More loss of sovereignty - the Commission is pushing to move from unanimity voting to qualified majority voting (55% majority) - on social policy, taxation, foreign policy...

ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/initiatives/ares-2018-6446089_en

www.eesc.europa.eu/en/news-media/news/eesc-supports-move-qualified-majority-voting-energy-taxation

dgap.org/en/research/publications/priorities-eus-new-foreign-policy-agenda-2024

How has freedom of movement been a disaster? What disaster has it actually caused??

Jeremy Corbyn July 2017;

"Mass immigration from the European Union has been used to “destroy” the conditions of British workers."

www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/07/jeremy-corbyn-wholesale-eu-immigration-has-destroyed-conditions-british

Oops - did he really say that?

How has freedom of movement been a disaster? What disaster has it actually caused?
All the problems caused by freedom of movement were entirely avoidable by our own successive governments and businesses, but they chose to make shit decisions. The government could have restricted FoM but didnt. Employers could have chosen to invest in staff training instead of constantly importing staff from the EU and the government could have encouraged them to do so. It didnt. The only good thing to come out of this is that we'll have to own our own shit instead of making crap decisions then blaming them on the EU.

Jeremy Corbyn was and probably still is a massive euro sceptic. He was too weak to own it and is now yesterdays man. Just because Labour chose him as leader doednt mean he has anything to say now or ever

Freedom of movement is such great benefit within the EU. If the rules are applied there is no reason for it to be a burden. I'd like to some some actual evidence to show that it has actually been a 'disasters? Without it I wouldnt have been able to study here so easily and I potentially would have had to move back to France to stay with DH which wouldn't have been ideal for his own career (or gone to India - not ideal for my career). Like a vast majority of EU workers here I am very much a net contributor.

theunknownknown
Don't be sad, just do the decent thing and get to the back of the food bank and NHS queues. And be the first to put your hand up when the redundancies come. Own your shit.

Just another bullshit bomb.
Its a shame that you have never felt this way before it affected you.

Exactly. It's not the fault of the EU that our government could have restricted freedom of movement and didn't.

It would be great to hear reasons for leaving that couldn’t be debunked with ten seconds on Google.

The problem with this mindset is basing it on predictions, the same IMF that was quoted heavily by the likes of the guardian and by those being hysterical on mn came out a couple of days ago and said that the UK will outpace the EU after brexit for 2 years.

It's all based on predictions, often from sources that didn't see the GFC or that ever increasing house prices would cause issues further down the line.

No side in this argument has the definitive answer, it is all based on predictions.
As usual though, the OP throws a bomb and walks away, all their posts are just pseudo political to stir the pot.

The European Commission and France want to end EU Budget rebates

As a result of Brexit messing up EU finances, not out of the blue.

More loss of sovereignty - the Commission is pushing to move from unanimity voting to qualified majority voting (55% majority) - on social policy, taxation, foreign policy...

Clav, those look like proposal papers and feedback rather than any commitment to change. What is the process by which the changes would be adopted? In particular, would any adoption of a move to majority voting in specific limited areas as per the proposals itself require unanimity?

It’s disaster and the loss of FOM for people and trade is the worst. The only plus is nothing is likely to happen yet and in all probability there will be an extension announcement this summer as there isn’t enough time to agree trade deals by next December.

It would be great to hear reasons for leaving that couldn’t be debunked with ten seconds on Google

I've yet to hear any. Most people I've spoken to who voted leave, thought we were paying the EU to dictate to us. They had no understanding that we were actually members or part of the decision making.
Everything was negative and inflicted on us.

How has freedom of movement been a disaster? What disaster has it actually caused??

It's been bad for allowing hundreds of thousands of people to arrive int the country without actually having a steady job to go to in advance, it's been bad for national security, for human slavery and people trafficking, it's been bad for wage suppression by flooding the labour market with cheap unskilled labour which has hit poorest communities the hardest, it's been bad for putting more uninsured drivers on the roads, it's been bad for fraud in our welfare state and benefits system, it's been bad for things such as counterfeit cigarette and alcohol smuggling and Eastern European puppy farming. It's been bad for our infrastructure putting huge pressure on schools, housing and GP surgeries and hospitals because we've been unable to contain, manage or anticipate numbers, it's been bad for bringing more beggars, prostitutes, pimps and homeless people on our streets, it's been bad because we can't vet people with a dangerous criminal history to stop them entering. It's been bad for money laundering and crime in general, it's been bad for illegal immigration by the back door, it's been bad for so, so, so many things.

But it's been great to be able to go through the shorter EU nationals queues at airports .

Except that the data on the "disaster" is not there. Any research into the impact of freedom of movement on labour terms and conditions finds ot to have little to no impact.

The UK's contributions vary by year, its better to look at the average, which between 2014 and 2018 they worked out at 7.7 billion net.

In particular, would any adoption of a move to majority voting in specific limited areas as per the proposals itself require unanimity?

Yes it would, but you are relying on the government of the day voting the way you want them to. In the recent general election, Labour's manifesto pledged to give EU citizens living in the UK full voting rights - changing the profile of the electorate overnight.

Do why are you holding the EU responsible when the government could have imposed restrictions but didn't?

Just another bullshit bomb
Its a shame that you have never felt this way before it affected you
Er, before what affected me?
I have always felt that those that voted for this shitstorm own it.

Oh botheration. I said before that there's no point engaging with leave voters and i should stick to it. You got what you wanted so I don't see why why you can't just shut up about it.