To think everyine has forgotten about next Frìday?

[malificent7]

Brexit isn't it? Im a remainer and i feel ok about it...at least my hysteria has died down. What about the rest of you?

Canyou I do empathise, I honestly do. Mostly I’m fighting the urge to hit them with a kipper. It’s honestly the most depressing and dreadful thing, and at the very least the Brexit voters deserve a stern talking to by their mothers. (Or an eternity of misery for actively choosing to damage the entire nation)

But I’m trying to focus on who peddled these lies, who used it for carpetbagging and profiteering, who sold the future of the young, who benefits from division. Because if I don’t, I have to hate my fellow Yorkshire people and some relatives.-

Yes, I have to say I've never been this angry about anything.

And you're right, those who promised the referendum and then came up with a lacklustre and uncoordinated remain campaign are definitely where my anger is targeted.

And to be clear- I don't wish leave voters ill, I'm a nice person really!! If leaving turns out to lead to economic prosperity and improved rights for vulnerable workers, higher salaries and more opportunities for low skilled workers- improvements for those most at risk from brexit- then I'll be over the moon. However I'll struggle to feel any genuine sympathy for those turkeys who voted for Christmas if the promised land of milk and honey fails to materialise after all...

@CameFromAway, you say the leavers were brainwashed and that's why they voted leave. They are forever insisting that they're not thick and weren't brainwashed and they knew exactly what they voted for and why.

So based on what the leavers themselves say, I have no sympathy for Brexiteers who lose their jobs and are worse off in a myriad of other ways after we leave with no deal post December 2020. It's what they want.

I will save my sympathy for the people who didn't vote for this but who are still going to lose their jobs and whose lives are going to be made harder due to Brexit.

@dimsum123, I don’t think they were brainwashed. I think an astonishingly wealthy, unscrupulous, and immoral organisation targeted dissatisfied and disenchanted voters. They offered a persuasive narrative of whose to blame for people’s disempowerment, and they weaponised racism.

That’s not the fault of the scared, the poor, the disenfranchised. That’s on the bastards who saw pain and turned it to their advantage.

Who’s. Not whose.

Sorry cane that's not the same poor who have been trafficked and forced to work for un scrupulous gangs all over the eu in what's called a '' phenomenon '' in people trafficking?

Or the poor blue collar worker who was out of a job when cheap labour flooded the eu market?
Our the poor family in the rented accommodation who suddenly had 30 people crammed into the same house wanting to shoe string budget accommodation so they could work and send money home and shit ll didn't fancy care?

People trafficking happens in countries outside the EU too.

EU immigration hasn't caused unemployment in UK nationals (all research shows this).

Your entire argument is a counterfactual appeal to emotion.
How about you argue based on facts that are probable?

@CameFromAway, that's what I believe too. But I think you'll find the Brexiteers themselves will disagree with you and in fact berate you for feeling your intellectual superiority meant you didn't fall for the lies and manipulation of the powerful organisation that orchestrated and manipulated their way to the leave vote.

So as I've already said, the leavers themselves say they were not manipulated and I can only go by their own words. So I will have no sympathy for them when they find themselves worse off as a result of this car crash. I won't be crowing and gloating like they are today but I won't be sympathetic.

(Haven't read the whole thread)
It's football Transfer Deadline Day!
It's pay day!
It's pp's birthdays (happy birthday btw 🎂)!
As for Brexit, I voted Leave. I can see the advantages of staying but it wasn't enough for me to vote Remain. Today will pass with me doing my housework, watching TV and not giving it much thought.

I think we should revisit this thread on the 31st of Jan every year to assess just how worthwhile Brexit has turned out to be.

I think that’s eminently sensible Blinby although I don’t think we should expect anything marvellous overnight, that’s not realistic. Remainders have to give it a reasonable amount of time before they jump up and down proclaiming it all to be a massive failure.

Also it’s important to remember that there are many different ways of measuring failure and success. It’s not a simple matter of fiscal ‘improvement‘ across the board, or growth. It’s complicated. Some things will have to be a bit worse in order for other things to be much better. So it’s not going to be easy to argue for absolute success or failure either way. People will always find a way to bend or twist the facts to make them appear to suit their own arguments.

mobile.twitter.com/coastmatt/status/1223154664541249536

People will always find a way to bend or twist the facts to make them appear to suit their own arguments.

Yes, that's why I think going back to the same thread will be valuable, because it's much easier to see where people are moving their goalposts. Stuff like 2016:"Of course Brexit won't mean leaving the single market" vs 2019:"Of course in 2016 we all voted for no deal"

@WhereShallWeMoveTo, how long would you consider a reasonable time? JRM said it would take 50 years for the benefits to be felt. I'll be long gone by then (not from the UK, from the planet) so that's pointless.

I think once a year is perfectly reasonable. We'll soon get a picture of what's changing and in what direction.

I hope to God that I'll be proved completely wrong and that all our lives will be better in a myriad of tangible ways.

But in the immediate, short and medium term I am seriously worried about the loss of jobs, the worsening of staff shortages in the NHS and care sector, food quality, quantity and prices, loss of worker's rights and consumer protections, lowering of environmental standards, EU funding cuts for amazing community support organisations such as Balance CIC which I have personally benefitted from, imported goods being more expensive due to tariffs and similarly our exports becoming more expensive and therefore less competitive due to tariffs etc etc etc.

I certainly don't trust the Tories to look after the ordinary person in the street or invest in the NHS. In fact they are likely to do a deal with US big pharma which means our medicines will cost the NHS far more than they do now meaning the NHS budget will be stretched even further ie longer waiting lists, cuts in services.

I also don't trust the Tories to negotiate good trade deals, I'm sure any deals will first and foremost benefit their friends in big business whilst screwing over ordinary people and squeezing even more out of us whilst increasing their own pay even more than they do now.

I cannot believe just how stupid the leavers have been to believe they will be better off by brexit and Tory voting leavers are the most stupid of them all.

JRM said it would take 50 years for the benefits to be felt

Well I, and a big chunk of the population, is going to have to take his word for that. Personally, I think it's highly unlikely I'll be around in 50 years time as I'd be 120.

No one would vote for a political party whose manifesto stated that if you stick with them for the next 50 years you'll start to see real prosperity and benefits, it's a ridiculous idea.

As far as I could gather from listening to Brexiteers, both politicians and voters, most of them seem to be under the impression that once we were out from under the heel of the evil EU we'd all be 'free', and a newly 'independent' Britain would become a land flowing with milk and honey; but apparently not yet.

So JMR, Johnson and all their rich cronies will be long dead and not answerable if, 50 years hence, those fabulous (and I use the word in its true sense) benefits don't appear.

Meanwhile, they'll be fine and dandy, and all the poor dupes who voted for them will be told there's no point in complaining now, but if they're just patient and wait 50 years they'll start feeling the benefits'.

What a joke.