To think mumsnet needs a separate 'Gender' section?

[Jargoyle]

I've been lurking here for years prior to signing up, but have now all but abandoned the women's rights section due to the overwhelming proliferation of trans threads.

I get that self ID is a big issue but I was saddened, for example, during the whole Irish abortion debacle that the first thread on it was barely two pages long whilst people were happily discussing Caitlyn Genner's style comments until the cows came home.

I think a separate section would be beneficial where the same old posters can have the same old discussions about it all.

They have done, it hasn't been massively productive.

The idea that there is still space to discuss other feminist issues in FWR is very far from the reality.

There's as much space to create threads as you want. It's not limited to a certain number per day.

I think you have to accept what people say about their own thoughts and feelings especially if it's consistent with their actions

///

I can accept they think/feel something but they and no one else can compel this to be reality and make me believe it. They are not entitled to any provisions which exist in law to protect actual biological women and girls.

This is not transphobic but I'm sure some of you will disagree

Frogs yup, incredibly patronising. For a second I wondered if the football loving chap that was on FWR yesterday had returned!

No idea

I see.

I don't find the trans question one issue at all.

If we just just lie back and take, it is the end of women's sports.

The end of the meaning of words. Politicians say they will defend women's sex-based rights and then it turns out that TWAW

The exclusion of Muslim, Othodox Jewish women and traumatized women from public life, and they have now been excluded from the pools in Hampstead.

Vulnerable women in prisons being locked up with rapists and violent men.

No refuges where traumatized women can to get away from men.

No more prizes or awards for women.

Being told outstanding women in history were actually men.

Organizations like the Girl Guides no longer being safe for girls.

Crime statistics being permanently skewed so that now we have women rapists

Children being taught that they easily change sex and then being used as guinea pigs in a huge pharmaceutical experiment. This is the one that most concerns me.

The implications of the trans debate are huge and despite the fact that we are majority of the population and transpeople are a minuscule minority, our opinion is unimportant.

You can add;
Sikh and Romany women to that list of excluded women.

Hospitals and psychiatric wards to spaces that should be single sex.

The marriage contract will be changed if the Spousal Exit Clause is removed, and that also changes the fundamental meaning of a legal contract.

@Jargoyle OP seems to have abandoned this thread.

Maybe too much effort, or not the right direction, or something. But I hope they don't pop up soon bemoaning the fact they don't get the threads they want, discussed in the way they want them.

You can also add issues around freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, thought and religion, free association.

All being undermined by trans believers, all impacting on women and girls, and men and boys though they're obviously not the focus of feminists.

You don't get to rip up reality and then complain when others don't want to play along..

To that list I would add the manipulation of reality so that women are now the oppressors.

It’s like the most widespread, organised DARVO imaginable. We have political leaders insisting that our biological reality is no longer how we can define ourselves.

Women are not the offenders here; we continue to be oppressed as a class and individually. Removing our ability to define ourselves puts an end to our ability to fight this.

Oh god, OP this thread surely isn't going the way you expected. Def get it moved to the lesser haunts of FWR before someone sees something they shouldn't

cohle what is stopping you from starting a thread on FWR? What issues would you like to see discussed there?

these people don't say the things I think they should say, waahhh! talk about what I want you to talk about threads are so freakin weird. And feel a bit controlling if I'm honest

you do you - so start threads about the stuff you want to talk about - and I'll do me - so post on your thread if it's something I find interesting

works for me

The last time I commented on a thread about a non-trans issue on FWR I received a PM explaining that the OP was a "long-standing irritant in the side of most feminist posters on the board" and it would be better to "let the thread just die with a single post".

It's things like that stop me, and I imagine many others, from wanting to start threads on FWR Vortex.

ah, you have not received an immediate, joyful and unconditional welcome into a group Cohle ?

how sad for you

happens to everyone you know

*a PM explaining that the OP was a "long-standing irritant in the side of most feminist posters on the board" and it would be better to "let the thread just die with a single post".

😂😂😂
Hilarious.

I’d have posted that PM on the boards, if it happened exactly like that.

I mean, if the post was by StreetwiseHercules the PM’er may have had a point....

It’s like the most widespread, organised DARVO imaginable. We have political leaders insisting that our biological reality is no longer how we can define ourselves.

We also have political leaders who are unable to define the word "woman". That's how far this has gone.

Political leaders are not able to utter the words "a woman is an adult human female" any longer - because it's anti-trans.

SO your basic point, OP, is that the biggest issues facing feminists today - as nicely summarised (in part) by @Coyoacan but let's not forget no longer being able to request same-sex intimate care for the elderly, disabled or infirm - don't belong in the Feminist Chat section and should be shunted off somewhere else?

Give your head a wobble, mate.

Oh god yes please. I can’t go into feminism topic any more as it is ALL about gender stuff and trans issues.

Explain how wanting the freedom to express my own personal experiences of racism makes me a "wokester special snowflake race card uppity oversensitive fucking bitch n*r LIAR constantly playing the race card anti-white racist how dare you deny me my right to freedom of speech by calling me racist stop playing the race card!!!" (all of which I've had hurled at me)?

Wow, it doesn’t at all, @joyfullittlehippo I am absolutely ashamed, shocked, dismayed, livid that you have had these things said to you in feminist circles (really, on FWR?) and yes - I recognise my slight disbelief - or not wanting to believe it - comes from a place of white privelige. I get that. I haven’t experienced and ‘don’t see’ these things. It doesn’t mean that they don’t happen.

What can white women on FWR do? What can we change? How can we support you? I honestly haven’t seen the thread you refer to denying that white privilege exists, I hope I’d have leapt on and countered if I had. The first thing I thought when the whole Laurence Fox thing kicked off was ‘hang on, someone noticing that you are indeed a white man is not bloody racism’. But then is white women jumping to WOC’s defence helpful - I try to think, what do I want from men in regards to sexism (ie, stop it, call it out when they recognise it but don’t speak for me) and try and behave like that in regards to race.

tinierclanger

I’ll look forward to your thread in there then. Which topic will you start with?

I have learnt so much from the feminist board. About issues that luckily don’t impact on me, period poverty, hostels, domestic abuse etc. And also things that do affect me like safeguarding of children and vulnerable adults. Single sex hospital wards, the spa at centre parcs, women’s sport etc etc. All of this is about women’s protections as a direct result of their sex.

Starting this thread probably wasn't the way to go if you couldn't be arsed with a debate. You would've also been best off refraining from using women at the margins of society to try and make your point, especially as their experiences prove the exact opposite of what you think they do.

Yes, exactly.

ah, you have not received an immediate, joyful and unconditional welcome into a group

It had nothing to do with me not being made welcome enough I'm perfectly willing to engage in robust debate.

It was the reluctance to engage in open, public debate with a poster but instead resort to unpleasant, underhand attempts to shut down her thread. It seemed very ironic given many of the concerns FWR voice frequently.

I think it would be better in a separate topic

That's nice. The women who actually post on FWR disagree.