To think mumsnet needs a separate 'Gender' section?

[Jargoyle]

I've been lurking here for years prior to signing up, but have now all but abandoned the women's rights section due to the overwhelming proliferation of trans threads.

I get that self ID is a big issue but I was saddened, for example, during the whole Irish abortion debacle that the first thread on it was barely two pages long whilst people were happily discussing Caitlyn Genner's style comments until the cows came home.

I think a separate section would be beneficial where the same old posters can have the same old discussions about it all.

It was the reluctance to engage in open, public debate with a poster

By one person. If it happened in the way you suggest. What did you do to challenge it?

The erosion of the rights of girls and women to privacy and safe spaces, the promotion of medicalised pathways and mutilating surgery to distressed female adolescents who think this will alleviate their distress and the undermining of women’s sport, among other things, are probably the most alarming things currently affecting women and girls. Not to mention the deliberate distortion of reality and rejection of scientific fact.
YABU.

"wokester special snowflake race card uppity oversensitive fucking bitch n*r LIAR constantly playing the race card anti-white racist how dare you deny me my right to freedom of speech by calling me racist stop playing the race card!!!"

Sorry, I missed this earlier - did a poster on Mumsnet say that to you? Or another forum? That's a shocking tirade, that most posters I converse with on Mumsnet or FW would utterly condemn.

FWIW, Mumsnetters are constantly told Mumsnet is not a "safe space" for anyone - and have also been repeatedly told that FWR is not to be considered a "safe space" for women - but more a discussion board to discuss feminism.

Incidentally - this isn't the first thread bemoaning FWR, and what's posted on there. Threads like this have abounded since at least 2012, long before any discussion on gender/trans issues. It used to be that FWR was "too radfem" and "unwelcoming" blah blah blah.

Also saw the thread cohle mentioned and it explained perfectly why many won’t engage on FWR, if you’re not part of the ‘anti trans gang’, your views don’t matter.
I think there needs to be a separate board. I don’t go there anymore because of the obsession with transwomen and not much interest in actual feminism. Would be good to get an actual feminism board back.

It was the reluctance to engage in open, public debate with a poster but instead resort to unpleasant, underhand attempts to shut down her thread.

So one person did that on one occasion and that put you off posting anything on there at all?

What did you do to challenge it?

Called it out on the thread in question and reported it to MNHQ.

Why, what should I have done?

Also saw the thread cohle mentioned

Which thread was that?

Interestingly reddit's feminist page currently has posts about Turkey's marriage to child rapists bill, the higher rate of suicide attempts by women, and MRAs. The trans stuff is discussed in a gender critical page.

You don't appear to understand how Reddit works. The GC "page" is separate as radical feminist ideas would probably not be accepted on the main Reddit "feminism" "page". They are not pages, they are separate themed groups called "subReddits" with separate sets of members. There are thousands of different ones.

I don’t go there anymore because of the obsession with transwomen and not much interest in actual feminism. Would be good to get an actual feminism board back.

What would you like to see on an 'actual feminism' board? You can start a thread on any aspect of feminism on the feminism boards now. Why don't you start one?

Perhaps we could start an "intersectional feminism" section, for all those feminists who dislike FWR, and who think gender identity, and self identified MTF should be part of feminism? And leave FWR alone to women who need it, and want it to stay as it is.

Whatever section we're shunted off to, whatever name you want to call us, you'll still moan about us. And it will likely still be the third most visited board on Mumsnet. Because it's important.

Have not read the whole thread, but I do recognise OP, got their ass handed to them on a Fem Chat thread last night if iirc. And to be clear nobody was mean (or meaner than usual), OP was simply offering crap arguments.

Now wants to sideline all those mean women? Is that it?

As this thread is 9 pages long someone will have already said this, but: if there is not a topic that suits you, start a thread. If you don't want to start a thread, go to another section on MN, there are lots to choose from.

I think I can see the point you’re trying to make, Cohle, but I also think it’s fair enough that women don’t want to spend their energy & time dealing with an individual poster who they feel has a proven track record of not engaging in good faith. I don’t think your example proves that women on FWR don’t wish to discuss topics apart from direct issues around gender self-ID.

I mean, I don't understand what gender identity is. But pretending it's stereotypes is just avoiding the question.

I don't see what else it's based on, if not stereotypes. It seems pretty stereotypical to me. I'm not "pretending", that's my genuine belief

I think I can see the point you’re trying to make, Cohle, but I also think it’s fair enough that women don’t want to spend their energy & time dealing with an individual poster who they feel has a proven track record of not engaging in good faith.

Of course people are absolutely entitled to decide not to engage with certain posters.

But I think pro-actively trying to encourage new posters not engage with them either, rather than allowing them to form their own views, and doing so via PM rather than directly on the thread in question so the OP has the chance to defend themselves is unfair.

I only raise the incident as an example of one of the ways in which it's just not as easy as "well start a thread about the issues you do want to discuss then".

The last time I commented on a thread about a non-trans issue on FWR I received a PM explaining that the OP was a "long-standing irritant in the side of most feminist posters on the board" and it would be better to "let the thread just die with a single post".

There are definitely such people on MN. Trolling from.MRAs is a thing.

cohle funnily enough, I started a thread on a case of forced (gay male) transition in India, and was told by the other posters (and I agree in hindsight) that it was a bit weird and didn't belong on a feminism board. It's really no big deal. There are new people joining all the time, no one "owns" FWR boards (except Justine and her advertisers), so I'd give it another go. As for stopping others from using the same space to talk about GC issues (which I want to discuss too, because I think it's gobsmacking to see how far things have deteriorated for women and girls in public life and law) well, I can't agree with that and I don't see how moving that discussion to a "separate section" is going to help those of us who want to talk about GC issues as well as other feminist issues. It will just fragment the feminist chat board and it won't be as good imo.

Ratfucking is a thing on FWR too.

The two most common screenshots passed around Twitter to "prove" Mumsnet is a den of bigotry were posted by a TRA - by the name of "12thGuelph".

I know I said it earlier

...but trying to control what other people talk about is SO FUCKING WEIRD

just talk about what you want to talk about

if you build it they will come....if you're interesting enough

...but trying to control what other people talk about is SO FUCKING WEIRD

Hear hear.

My sincere apologies joyfullittlehippo I’ve no idea what I was doing there. I completely rushed through your post and missed half of it out, whilst misunderstanding the rest. I feel like a right silly fucker and it’s no less than I deserve.

Nope, 'gender' is definitely at home on FWR. Essential, existential. It is also possible to bend one's attention to several issues simultaneously and battle on several fronts at once.
Though perhaps gender should be relegated to the 'The super-natural' board, along with other made up fantasies.

I am really tired of the Twitter guff, though I think the gender debate is important (that's actually why I'm tired of the Twitter guff). But perhaps I should just use and look at the other FWR sections, which don't have half as much twatter. Other FWRs are available!

if you’re not part of the ‘anti trans gang’, your views don’t matter

Im not anti trans...

But probably my views dont matter 😊

No ones ever told me that on FWR though

I'm tired of the twitter guff too....I just ignore those threads

not interested in what some non entity said on twitter

but other people are interested in nobodies spouting away on twitter and I don't think it;s my place to tell them they can't talk about it if they want to