To think mumsnet needs a separate 'Gender' section?

[Jargoyle]

I've been lurking here for years prior to signing up, but have now all but abandoned the women's rights section due to the overwhelming proliferation of trans threads.

I get that self ID is a big issue but I was saddened, for example, during the whole Irish abortion debacle that the first thread on it was barely two pages long whilst people were happily discussing Caitlyn Genner's style comments until the cows came home.

I think a separate section would be beneficial where the same old posters can have the same old discussions about it all.

JulyKit

for your contributions on this thread; your arguments remain measured and polite, and I'm going to try and remember to use your tone more.

The regulars nit picked and attacked any wording and just told me I was wrong! I hadn’t gone there saying anyone who held a different view to me was ‘wrong’ but that was what was repeatedly aimed at me. I didn’t go on to argue any point, just my view to what I had assumed was an open discussion and it just got nastier, more cutting and very much felt ganged up on.

The OP has given her view, give yours and move on. You don’t need to berate her that her idea is a bad/wrong one. I don’t go onto a thread to ‘win’, or argue. I give my view.

I've been on the FWR boards for a while now and never seen anyone "screaming abuse" confused

Lucky you - you missed the MRA at the weekend then

From memory, we were all FAT HORSE FACED CUNTS and other delightful stuff. Women are all cunts, scum - that sort of thing. He was so angry with women on an internet forum, he came back 3 times under different names, but then announced he was bored with making new email addresses and went away.

Mumsnet, as always, deleted and banned him - part of me wishes his posts were allowed to stand, to demonstrate just how much some men hate women, and the lengths a few men will go to, to abuse women.

Thank you, @ItsLateHumpty - likewise!

@Bunnyfuller, IDK what thread you're talking about, obviously - and of course, you could have explained why you held your opinion (people do that on internet forums sometimes, you know?), but you chose not to. Which is fine. As is the possibility that maybe, just maybe, you were, in fact... wrong. That can happen sometimes, and it's OK.

As for your command that we should give our views and 'move on', er, no. I'll stay here as long as I like, thanks.

Ah, yes, the 'horse faced cunts' poster. And then there was the little fella on this thread last night calling people dickheads.
That stuff is nothing compared to the threats and abuse women, and especially GC feminists, receive on Twitter all the time.
But still, it's interesting to see someone say they don't see any abuse on the FWR boards. At least that confirms that it's certainly not the norm for regular posters (as if confirmation were needed) - and that happily, people don't imagine that it is.

OK, I completely missed the horse faced cunts poster (autocorrect keeps trying to turn that into cubes lol)
Although I do agree if someone is calling some posters dickheads
Not you, but we all know some dickhead posters lol (well aware some are thinking you're a big one, fuck off Willis)

I would never ever dare to post on a fwr thread, let alone a trans thread. Even though pp say they are nice. I could not stomach the mocking tone, if you do not totally agree .

Sorry, this is the closest I will get to posting, it's a shame really.

July I have and am continuing to engage with posters though. I'm not sure what questions you feel I haven't answered, but I'm happy to do so if you point them out. I'm afraid there's not much I can do about you just not liking my responses though.

The only reference I've made to bullying, as far as I recall, is regarding not having been bullied off the board. Which is hardly a damning accusation. I have however referred to hostility, unpleasantness, distressing allegations etc., which I entirely stand behind.

Just thought. How do you know it was a "little fella?"
From words alone? Or what? That's the point people are making on the thread if so.
It's the tone and insinuation to posters intent if they disagree that people are objecting to.

The pay gap, unconscious bias in medicine and teenage struggles with their identity or what they feel pressured to be

All these are discussed on FWR. In fact the last one is sounding dangerously close to being a 'trans' subject.

The struggles of teenage girls with their identity and/or puberty and/or discovering that they are attracted to other girls seem to be some of the reasons for so many of them deciding they must be trans or non-binary.

This is very much a feminist issue.

@Cohle, I'm afraid I simply don't have time to cut and paste all the questions right now. I've named some of the posters who asked them, though, so perhaps that will help you.

Similarly, anyone who reads this thread can see your posts about bullying.

@WotchaTalkinBoutWillis, do you mean how do I know the poster was male? Well, obviously I don't know that for sure. Could have been a lady of 90 for all I know. The poster's style certainly looked to me like that of a teenage boy. There are lots of those on Twitter who start off by introducing themselves as rad fems, try and imply that they've been rad fems for decades, then it becomes apparent that they're teenage boys or (very) young men. So my referring to the "little fella" was kind of presumptive, but based on observing many very similar posters.
I'm not sure what "tone and insinuation to posters intent" means. Anyway, it didn't go too well for that poor kid* last night.

*Disclaimer: yes, of course that poster could have been very old, and/or female. But I doubt it.

Oh, and one more thing, @WotchaTalkinBoutWillis, I have no objections to teenage boys posting on here, on FWR or wherever (assuming that that's within MN rules, etc.). Bit odd when any poster starts identifying as something they clearly aren't though (e.g. in that poster's case, a 'socialist feminist' interested in 'older issues' ). And odder still when they start shouting 'dickhead' at other posters. (Not that that behaviour's exclusive to teenage boys, obvs.)

Now that you mention it, madambee, there is a lot less tone policing on FWR that there was a few years ago.

12th rule of misogyny: Women's ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

Similarly, anyone who reads this thread can see your posts about bullying.

The only reference to bullying I've made on this thread is one I've just outlined though. So I'm a bit confused as to why you would make a veiled accusation like that.

I'm afraid I simply don't have time to cut and paste all the questions right now.

And, bearing in mind it has been a relatively fast moving thread and that some questions have been repetitive, I have made a good faith effort to respond to as many questions as I can. I assumed that given you seem so wound up about it you some particular queries in mind, but it's fine if you don't.

Yes, @Cohle. All remaining posts on this thread are visible. Well done!

I'm sorry, but I'm not wound up by anything you've said. I have, however, answered questions I've been asked. It's nice to do that on internet forums, you know? It's kind of what forums are there for.

And I really can't make it clearer that I've attempted to do the same July. It seems bizarre to me that you're so concerned about my apparent failure to answer questions in a timely fashion but don't actually have any particular question in mind.

Oh gawd. Yet another spewed out "rule" from the roolz book when someone disagrees.
Seriously, what?

Oh I love Bewilderness's rules of misogyny. Well, love is the wrong word - I find them incredibly accurate.

Maybe you do, but just realise it's usually yet another rule/attempt to discredit anyone who ever disagrees.

July I think you're confusing exasperation for anxiety.

You seem to be throwing weird accusations my way (posts I've apparently made about bullying, questions I've apparently failed to answer etc), failing to substantiate them, and then accusing me, again, of not being cut out for debate.

I'm not why you think I or indeed anyone else would enjoy that sort of interaction, or being patronised by you.