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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think mumsnet needs a separate 'Gender' section?

999 replies

Jargoyle · 25/01/2020 01:31

I've been lurking here for years prior to signing up, but have now all but abandoned the women's rights section due to the overwhelming proliferation of trans threads.

I get that self ID is a big issue but I was saddened, for example, during the whole Irish abortion debacle that the first thread on it was barely two pages long whilst people were happily discussing Caitlyn Genner's style comments until the cows came home.

I think a separate section would be beneficial where the same old posters can have the same old discussions about it all.

OP posts:
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JulyKit · 27/01/2020 00:49

I think it would therefore be a good idea to have a separate section for gender topics.

Then you agree with the posters who've suggested that if some people want a board where they can chat about 'gender topics' as opposed to feminism, sure, they're welcome to it. Nice bit of consensus there then. Smile

Faez · 27/01/2020 00:55

It's not about the pasta toilets

NotTerfNorCis · 27/01/2020 00:56

I'm not sure separating out 'liberal feminism' and 'gender critical' is useful though. I am gender critical, but it is not how I define my feminism.

I think it would help us understand what liberal feminism is. My bet is that most threads would be pro-genderist, pro-sex work, against 'carceral feminism', plus guilt trips about 'white feminism' and stuff about how feminists should get involved in issues that aren't directly feminist like relieving poverty and promoting world peace.

DesireesChild · 27/01/2020 00:56

As OP says, in real life, no-one thinks about trans issues as a big deal or a threat to women

Rubbish! When I campaigned at the time of the GRA deadline, every person I spoke too in my city was seriously concerned about the impact of self ID

I live in a university city with a population approaching 500,000. I'm in London on average once every couple of months. I still haven't reached double figures on the number of trans people I've noticed.

theflushedzebra · 27/01/2020 00:58

Snowlight, Justine has, in fact, recognised the need for free speech on this matter, and continues to allow the conversations, despite the threat of a loss of advertising revenue. She has said this publicly a number of times.

TheBewildernessisWeetabix · 27/01/2020 00:59

Feminism is an aggressive orthodoxy.
It is a testament to the effectiveness of the backlash against Feminism that so many people are ignorant of this simple fact.

TheBewildernessisWeetabix · 27/01/2020 01:02

Regarding what is generally referred to as liberal feminism or sometimes commercial feminism I think it is best described with the 5th rule of misogyny: Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

FTFOTFVille · 27/01/2020 01:07

I still haven't reached double figures on the number of trans people I've noticed

This is repeated so often... Please. I don't notice trans people. I have them. Right here in my family. They are also my friend's children. And a neighbour. I do not give a god damn if you are not living this life: I am.
So I need to talk about the issues. I get from your post that you want me to stop, but why? As it clearly does not affect you?

JulyKit · 27/01/2020 01:09

Agreed, @NotTerfNorCis.
@Jargoyle's chatty 'gender' board could well include the same sort of discussion.
I'm not sure why Jargoyle wants MN to host those boards (I can only speculate about that, obviously...).
It's curious, really, because, of course, if there were a 'gender' board, where cute chat about that rather than feminism were the main focus, then of course it would deny TRA trolls the opportunity to drop into the FWR boards on such a regular basis. I don't think that those who use the FWR boards to discuss feminism would find that too problematic. Maybe some posters would miss the odd laugh, but then, it's not as if frustrated TRAs are the only source of amusement, so it shouldn't be too problematic.

DesireesChild · 27/01/2020 01:11

Who, apart from you, is writing these "rules of misogyny"?

Personally I don't find them helpful or particularly persuasive of the points you are making- even when they otherwise might be points I agree with.

I also really dislike the sniping that goes on between radical feminists and liberal feminists- both convinced they are right.

Whilst I don't agree with her on many points I am far more inclined to listen to women like Caroline Farrow who address individual issues they are concerned with without the need to fly a party flag of "radical feminist or "liberal feminist"

DesireesChild · 27/01/2020 01:12

Sorry my post was in reply to TheBewildernessisWeetabix

JulyKit · 27/01/2020 01:15

And agreed. @TheBewildernessisWeetabix.

So maybe there is a place for these 'gender' boards.
But what should they be called?
Commercial Feminism?
Gender?

I think I prefer the first, but I fear the the very word 'Feminism' might scare off the posters who'd enjoy them the most.

How about 'Commercial Gender'? That seems like the best name for them to me. It's the most accurate, after all.

What do you say, @Jargoyle? I think we may have found a solution for you!

JulyKit · 27/01/2020 01:17

I also really dislike the sniping that goes on between radical feminists and liberal feminists- both convinced they are right.

Yes, it's just awful when women have confidence in their beliefs, and vocally disagree about things, isn't it, @DesireesChild?

Do you think the feminists are to blame?

FTFOTFVille · 27/01/2020 01:18

Oh, DesireesChild, the Rules of Misogyny are for everyone!

THE RULES OF MISOGYNY

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.

2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.

3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.

5th rule of misogyny: WATM! [What about the Men] Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

6th rule of misogyny: Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.

7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.

8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad.

11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.

12th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.

DisinterestedParty · 27/01/2020 01:22

@DiegoSaber so you want the board to be different, but you don't want to be the one to change it?

I mean...what should we do then? Hold your hand?

theflushedzebra · 27/01/2020 01:23

The rules of misogyny have been on the interweb for a long while now....

Certain posters (for example, the OP) think they can make similar rules for FWR -except I pointed out the only rules for FWR are set by MNHQ and pinned to the top of the FWR board.

nolongersurprised · 27/01/2020 01:23

I think it would therefore be a good idea to have a separate section for gender topics.

And educational. There are now, I think, over 60 different genders. It’d be great to have all of them explained to me in a non word-salad type of way.

DesireesChild · 27/01/2020 01:25

Yes, it's just awful when women have confidence in their beliefs, and vocally disagree about things, isn't it,@DesireesChild?

Not sure what point you are makin. Do you have a problem with a woman expressing an opinion you don't like? Your post certainly reads that way.

Do you think the feminists are to blame?

No idea what you are on about. To blame for what?

FTFOTFVille · 27/01/2020 01:29

Don't underplay it Nolonger, I heard there were at least a hundred.

DesireesChild answer my question: why are you upset that people discuss an issue that affects them but not you?

JulyKit · 27/01/2020 01:33

No idea what you are on about. To blame for what?

Why 'the sniping', of course - and all those women who are 'convinced they are right'. You say you really dislike it....

DiegoSaber · 27/01/2020 01:34

I mean...what should we do then? Hold your hand?

Nope, you don't need to do anything. Crazy, huh?

nolongersurprised · 27/01/2020 01:34

Don't underplay it Nolonger, I heard there were at least a hundred.

See, clearly I have no idea and a section of mumsnet just for gender would be very instructive. By just being a woman I’m probably doing gendering wrong.

JulyKit · 27/01/2020 01:37

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JulyKit · 27/01/2020 01:44

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OldWomanOfHoy · 27/01/2020 01:48

nolonger I surely am doing gender wrong because I don't really know what it is, and call me thick but if posters need to discuss women's rights, and the reason women's rights are threatened is oops, something women are just talking about too much and why don't they damn well shut the hell up, then BAM!! I'm gonna talk about it and you can just deal with it