Private school or property?

[Questionwithanamechange]

Current debate with dh about what’s best for dc.

Private school is an expensive thing these days so for those who send your dc to a private school, do you think it’s worth the investment? What iyo makes it worth the cost and why?

Dh thinks private school is the only way forward for our dc as he was privately educated, but I’m not 100% convinced due to the cost. We can afford it without it affecting our lifestyle but it wouldn’t leave much to save. We have decent investments so don’t currently need to put money away for a rainy day.

However, AIBU to think that as long as we get a good state school for our dc and are prepared to pay for extra curriculars, tutoring if necessary etc., they would benefit more from getting a property? Currently it would cost 200k for each dc so with fee rises over the years, I think 250k overall is a conservative estimate. That in our area would buy a nice 2 bed flat which imo would set them up for life after uni.

We are in almost exactly the same boat (have a 3 and 1 year old) and are currently leaning towards state but could still change our minds. It has been really interesting reading everyone else opinion.

I have been educated in both state and private (state primary and 2 private secondaries) and my husband state. Overall, my memories of school are not great in either sector. I was bullied horribly (the worst being in first private but not at all in the second) and had a lot of pressure from my parents to perform academically as they 'were not paying extortionate fees for me to get average grades'. This pressure also meant I never told them about the bullying as I was ashamed that it was happening, largely because of the pressure I had to perform. DH had a happy childhood free of academic pressure. I did end up with the better GCSE/A level grades BUT we both went to Russell Group unis, got 2:1/1st degrees, have professional qualifications and earn decent wage in stable careers.

I feel very strongly that if anyone chooses to send to private, it needs to be for the overall experience it gives the child - small class sizes, access to facilities, building confidence etc - and not solely about the grades. I don't feel it is comparable to say a child would have got the same grades at a state school as they likely wouldn't be the same person. I also don't feel it is fair to pressure a child the way I was pressured to perform as they haven't chosen to go to that school (and even if they have, they are still too young to fully understand the enormity of the impact of fees on family budget).

In terms of contacts you make - if your child is at one of the country's top independents and also a high flyer aiming for a top university and corporate role then yes, the contacts will certainly be useful. However, having a large circle of friends coming from these top schools, I can say only a couple have benefited from this. The majority have gone on to have average professional jobs where the backgrounds of colleagues are completely mixed.

In terms of the debate of education vs property, another PP has also touched on the fact that an education belongs to the child for life and they can do anything they want with it. The same can't be said for property - while I agree, it could set someone up for life, possessions and money come and go in life but the confidence and life skills from education cannot be taken away from you.

Saying that, our reason for picking state right now is that I have been really impressed with our local state primaries when visiting and cannot justify the private fees. It would take us both working full time to afford them and DH currently does long hours with me being very part time and picking up most of the childcare. For me, the children's happiness and mental health is the most important thing after my experience at school so I want to be around as much as possible; not working all hours to pay fees. From my experience, I feel a child is less likely to go to a parent when in trouble if they are not available as much or are extremely stressed. We are incredibly fortunate to be financially comfortable as we are and can afford extra curricular activities together with regular holidays if we do not have fees to pay. However, if there is the slightest doubt that either child is not happy, we will not hesitate to reconsider. Our financial circumstances may also change over the next few years and we change our minds as a result, but right now, our plan is to state educate until 18.

I am a retired teacher and I have taught in both the public and private sector. I have come across excellent teachers and those who were poor in both sectors. As someone up thread said it is the smaller classes in the private sector which give a great advantage. Also discipline is often better for a variety of reasons. If your child is bright they would probably do well in either but if your child is average the smaller classes can be a real advantage.
If I had young children and lived in a grammar school area I would go private at private in the hope of getting them into a grammar at age eleven. If they didn't get into the grammar then you would probably keep with the private sector and if you chose a through school they would not have to sit very competitive aged 11 entrance exams.

I would go private at primary

I was privately educated but my children will go to a state school. I get that schools are very underfunded right now but I don’t want them to be in that bubble & I think you can do just as well at a good state school, my DH went to a state school & attended St Andrew’s uni. I definitely think tutors is a good option though to push them to do as well as possible.

@TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead I couldn't agree more. The private school I was horribly bullied at was picture perfect when visiting. 200+ acres of land, wonderful sports and music facilities, tiny class sizes, semi boarding so supposedly wonderful pastoral care (majority day pupils) - the most wonderful school on paper and to visit.

In reality, girls were snobby and bitchy, the low level mental bullying almost drove me to suicide. In hindsight, it should have been very clear from the sudden change in my academic performance that something was not right but this was not detected by any member of the supposedly fantastic staff. Sports teams were only for the very best and likewise for music. While I was good at music (achieved grade 6 in an instrument when in y9, there were still many better than me so I never got a chance)

For those saying that they / their children didn’t benefit from connections made at private schools, it’s just like white male privilege. You don’t know you have it as you’re so entrenched in it you can’t see it for what it is.

I'd got for property but even that's not a certainty these days... I mean, honestly, it cannot keep going up or our kids will need £1m (around here in London at least) for a starter home!

DH was privately educated the whole way through and when we first met I think he really hoped his kids would be too, and then reality dawned that people like us just can't afford it anymore! I humoured him and looked at a renowned one near us when looking at secondaries for DD (I was a bit scared that he'd love it decide it was far superior to all the state schools and insist we sacrifice everything to send her there) and of course we could afford it while also being far too well off for bursaries... and in fact, he admitted 'The facilities are amazing, but I can't see why it's that much better than the state schools'. And state schools, in London at least, have got a lot better in the last few years.

If your kids aren't that academic and you have a lot of money, I can see the point (sadly, this is still a thing) - as stockbroker friends of my parents, who had put their kids down for Rodean and Eton, said to them when we were young 'It's all right for your kids, they're academic, our kids will need the contacts'.

*couldn't afford it!!!

I would go state with extra curricula activities. There might not be SATS at private schools but the pressure to get into a good secondary is intense and really stressful for children and being heavily tutored to pass entrance exams.
As lots of PPs have said a lot of it is down to parental support and attitude- the smallest class and best music facilities in the world cant make up for a parent who thinks they can pay to make their child cleverer!

Whether or not you're making this up is irrelevant.
Why would I make it up?
It may be anecdotal, but it’s true. I do know a lot of people who went to private school, all of who, cannot afford to buy property as they earn around the average to just below wage.
Private school and a privileged education does not guarantee a job that you’ll enjoy that will enable you to buy a property.

We had the same decision to take as you OP and we thought property a better investment because we got lucky with a fantastic, very sought after, state school.

If we hadn't, we'd have done private. But I am so glad we did.

I have friends with children in very unremarkable private schools and I wonder what they are buying. (DH and I both went to private boarding schools so I am by no means against them. I see the point of the excellent schools. But them average ones, not so much.)

Depends on your local situation as so many others have said.

Good luck. It's a stressful time finding the right place!

I do think there’s a huge difference in people’s attitudes to the perceived benefits of private depending which circles you move in.
E.g my barrister friend and doctor friend obviously work with a lot of people who have been to private school so see the potential
benefits (although neither were privately educated) they also chose state for their children.
Whilst most of the people I know / DH knows are in normal jobs average / trades. So there has been little perceived benefit / return from their privileged education.

Its not such a straightforward choice as it depends on the school and on the child. I was private from the start but it wasnt one that you networked in but was the right choice for a shy child. I left at 16 to go to college.

DH had a more eclectic journey. Started off in a prep, then went to St Paul Choir School (which he hated) local state junior then a London Private School that is one you get 11+ threads on that he hated.

Both DD and DS are state primary and we LOVE the school. DD passed for our super selective local school and will go in September. DS will continue onto the state boys school. If DD hadnt made it she would have gone Private though I think for secondary based on the schools in our area

For both of us we grew up feeling isolated from our local area because are friends were dotted all over. I wanted them to go to the local state school to be part of the community. It has been the perfect school for them.

Go on school visits for both. Get a feel and go with what suits you and your children

Your kids can educate in various ways at different times in their lives depending on circumstances, circumstances which can change at anytime. They will however always bed a roof over their heads so that's where I would put my money.
You will be reassured that will always be there for them and won't be likely to change. Education and careers probably change more and can go wrong, they may get educated privately but how will they use it? Some it benefits others it does not, but they will always need a home.

For those saying that they / their children didn’t benefit from connections made at private schools, it’s just like white male privilege. You don’t know you have it as you’re so entrenched in it you can’t see it for what it is.

I am pretty certain my sister didn't, unless all secondary state teachers went to a private school. Maybe as a person, but not career wise.

The earnings comparator how does that work? State schools have to take everybody so the only fair comparator of earnings should be a similar group by background who went to the two types of school. Anecdotally this doesn’t bear up the state educated people I know us included are earning more than the privately educated ones.

Another factor I think really affects happiness is proximity to school. Everyone I know who went to a school a long way from their community had a far less happy childhood- state or private irrelevant. All the time spent commuting then no local friends as a teen is pretty rubbish. We felt strongly that we wanted ours to go to nearby schools

@MeanMrMustardSeed

I think you're misunderstanding what connections means. No one is saying they didn't get an advantage from their education. In the old days there would be a network of old boys who would get you an internship here, an interview there. That simply really isn't the case for most people any more. The job market in finance and law is just incredibly competitive and international. No one can afford to hire a mediocre candidate because they were in the same boarding house.

You might have benefited from the aspirational atmosphere, exposure to role models in powerful and high earning careers, you might feel more at home culturally and socially amongst these people because you're used to it and feel entitled to be there. All that is true, but it's unlikely that you'll benefit from a professional network of people you met at school.

@MsTSwift

You can't possibly know thousands of people who went state and private and also know all their incomes either. So what you're describing is an anecdote - and one that isn't even typical of the general trend (I know a 90 year old smoker who still walks to the shops every day - it doesn't mean smoking is actually fine for you). Even taking into account family background statistically those who were privately educated earned significantly more than those who weren't (although obviously the affect is much smaller than if you neglect to take into account background).

Most people don't pay for private education as a financial investment though. I want my kids to have as happy a childhood as possible - a lot of their waking hours are spent at school so I want them to have the greatest possible opportunities while there. The chance to do lots of sports, music, develop a love of learning and hopefully have the greatest possible choice of careers as a result. I don't necessarily just want them to earn as much as possible. I also don't want them to have to spend their free time being tutored to make up for a poorer education at school. My local state school has large class sizes, fewer academic kids, lots of fights, much less time doing sports and almost no chance to do drama or sport. Kids describe not feeling safe there. The private school has a massive and very obvious advantage.

The thing is, there is no such thing as “a private school”, they’re all different.

So people saying “don’t send your kids private because of X” isn’t useful - the only way you can judge whether a school is right for your child is to visit it.

I agree about the proximity to the school thing.

It’s a fair point that if most of the hard working and motivated children end up in the grammar/private system then that won’t be good for the hard working children that are left in state schools. On a personal level though I can’t help but feel glad that I was moved into a school where I was able to work hard without being made to feel bad about it.

Wrong thread. Ignore my comment!

I made zero connections at private school and neither did my husband. Not all private schools are the same. My parents decision was very much based on smaller class sizes pastoral care etc. They were right by the time I got college at 16 I was able to deal with it and the best friend I made (and still have) went to the local state school I would have gone too
DH as I said went to a London one you would have thought could give him connections but he make close friends. But he didn’t hate it either
Friendships were the reason though we sent ours to state primary as we both felt it has isolated us from making local friends

We chose to not educate privately, DH went to a famous public school and I went to a comp. The local private school to us is quite frankly crap.

DS has done extremely well at the local but not great results in the league tables comp and is in his final year of sixth form. Certainly as well and in some cases better GCSE results as the dc who have been educated privately amongst our friendship group which is the majority.

As many of my friends have dc in sixth form or in their early twenties it’s interesting to see how they are turning out. The cleverest child I know personally has really poor communication skills and is not a people person at all. DS communicates well with others and has great enthusiasm for whatever he is doing. My friends DS was always a delight, he has just graduated and got every job he applied for and is already being headhunted.

A school can assist a child academically but people’s natural personalities are always there.

It’s knowing your own child and what’s best for them.

Saying should I go private is a non sensical question as it depends massively on the child and school options.

I know one super geeky child who has no interest in sport (apart from his one particular hobby which isn't available at school anyway) who has the opportunity to go to a super selective grammar he would be absolutely devastated to made to go to the local private which gets worse results and tends to attract more hearty kids that he would fit in less well with.

If on the other hand the local comprehensive is struggling and you have a shy under confident kid who is in to drama/music/sport and you have a lovely nurturing private school available which will give them the individual attention and opportunity to build confidence and give breadth of experience etc then yes it could be life transforming.

I think a brilliant education is absolutely worth more than a house. (and the cost of private education is actually less than a decent property if you live in an expensive area) However it isn't necessarily the case that a private education is the best one for every child.