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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Privilege. How can it be talked about and acknowledged in today's society

492 replies

chomalungma · 20/01/2020 16:37

Just a follow up from the recent threads. Male privilege. White privilege. It exists. But some people think it is a poor concept as they don't seem privileged. This thread is just to carry on the conversation.

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PhilSwagielka · 20/01/2020 21:41

(that's one example off the top of my head)

PhilSwagielka · 20/01/2020 21:43

I know able-bodied people definitely have privilege over me because they're less limited in the things they can do. That's not being woke, that's merely stating a fact. I can't walk for certain distances without being in immense pain. I find things like brushing my hair and cleaning my house difficult.

Alwaysrainsonme · 20/01/2020 21:44

If being white and male = privilege, why do white boys from disadvantaged backgrounds perform worse at school than any other ethnic group?

Making assumptions about an individual by dint of their sex and skin colour and labelling them “privileged” or not, is at best ignorant and at worst gratuitous bigotry.

chomalungma · 20/01/2020 21:46

If being white and male = privilege, why do white boys from disadvantaged backgrounds perform worse at school than any other ethnic group

Have you watched the video?

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=hD5f8GuNuGQ&feature=emb_logo

It talks about the different things that people can expect and their upbringing and the way society treats them - and shows what privilege means,

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FloreanFortescue · 20/01/2020 21:47
is American but I think it explains privilege very well.
malylis · 20/01/2020 21:49

White boys from poor backgrounds don't perform worse than any other ethnic group, black Caribbean boys do worse.

White boys who live in rural areas or costal towns do worse than this, but roma and irish traveler boys do worse over all.

But again, you are confusing the concept of privelege, it doesn't mean you don't face other challenges, in this case it means they don't face some barriers based on their race or gender.

chomalungma · 20/01/2020 21:50

@alwaysrainsome

What advantages do you think having white skin brings someone compared to someone with a BAME background?

Can you think of some of the disadvantages that someone from a BAME background might have?

What advantages do you think being male might have?
Where do you think being female might be a disadvantage?

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OrangeCinnamon · 20/01/2020 21:53

@alwaysrainsonme have a read of the thread it explains some commonly held misconceptions surrounding how people use the term privilege and how these can be challenged.

If you were a white male from a disadvantaged background talking to me as a mixed race female about my 'privilege' I would not dismiss your point and I would recognise myself as privileged. That is because I understand how the term is used . Yet some people seem to feel under attack when this term is used. This thread is about opening up conversations regarding that

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 20/01/2020 21:55

White working class boys were certainly the most underperforming group when I was a school governor up to 2 years ago, in fact they were a big focus of Ofsted.

chomalungma · 20/01/2020 21:57

Right now, privilege is having supportive articles writen in the mass media and being interviewed on radio after you appeared on a major TV show dismissing privilege. And then having media commentators from similar backgrounds agreeing with you on their national TV programs, writing their own columns in the paper.

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malylis · 20/01/2020 21:58

White working class boys are not the lowest performing group, i have the data here in front of me.

On FSM black boys from Caribbean backgrounds under perform more than white working class boys on fsm.

And yes white working class boys have been a focus of ofsted and PP for a number of years its true. But they aren't the lowest performing demographic.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 20/01/2020 22:03

What about boys not on FSM?

lilmisstoldyouso · 20/01/2020 22:04

Seriously OP, you need to "check your privilege".

CendrillonSings · 20/01/2020 22:05

Right now, privilege is having supportive articles writen in the mass media and being interviewed on radio after you appeared on a major TV show dismissing privilege. And then having media commentators from similar backgrounds agreeing with you on their national TV programs, writing their own columns in the paper.

So are there no articles and media personalities arguing the opposite then? Of course there are. Why pretend they don’t exist?

malylis · 20/01/2020 22:05

Over all white boys out perform black boys.

You do realise that the criteria for "working class" in these instances is FSM?

OrangeCinnamon · 20/01/2020 22:08

Sorry posted too soon made no sense @alwaysrainsonme

If you were a white male from a disadvantaged background talking to me as a mixed race MIDDLE CLASS female about my 'privilege' I would not dismiss your point and I would recognise myself as privileged. That is because I understand how the term is used . Yet some people seem to feel under attack when this term is used. This thread is about opening up conversations regarding that

In the above case my privilege would be related to class not the colour of my skin or gender.

( im not mc btw)

chomalungma · 20/01/2020 22:08

So are there no articles and media personalities arguing the opposite then? Of course there are. Why pretend they don’t exist

On mainstream TV?
In the mainstream media?

I don't even think I've read one in the Guardian.

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Oakenbeach · 20/01/2020 22:10

I am white and I am privileged. I recognise there’s a correlation there and that POC in the UK will have had obstacles in life that I won’t have had, but equally white people from deprived backgrounds will have had obstacles that I won’t have had too.

Take Blackpool for instance... it has eight of the ten most deprived neighbourhoods in the UK, with only 3% ethnic minorities (far lower than average).

Does the typical white resident of Blackpool experience privilege deriving from their whiteness? Nothing tangible. They remain poor and struggling with low educational attainment and poor prospects, worse even than the poorest of areas with highest numbers of BAMEs.

Even the belief that despite their poverty and deprivation, their whiteness won’t hinder them, and that they at least retain “white privilege” (despite it being of no meaningful consequence) is misplaced. For instance, when selecting people for jobs, I have to admit fighting some prejudice in applications from someone with a typical white working class name, more so than I believe I do those from ethnic backgrounds. I attempt to compensate for this instinctive and admittedly ugly prejudice, and look for the person behind the stereotype. I absolutely know I’m not the only one in a privileged position to think like this.

White privilege just doesn’t reflect the reality of modern Britain. Class privilege, yes; Class privilege of a largely white elite, absolutely; but white privilege, no - there are just too many white communities that are marginalised and looked down upon by other privileged groups.

I fear that the insistence of the liberal left on the concept of white privilege will do more damage to race relations in Britain than the BNP ever did.

CendrillonSings · 20/01/2020 22:13

On mainstream TV?
In the mainstream media?
I don't even think I've read one in the Guardian.

Then perhaps you might take that as a sign that the left-wing doctrine of “privilege” that you accept as gospel does not enjoy much popular support outside Twitter.

CookieDoughKid · 20/01/2020 22:14

Class privilege is it. A previous poster mentioned prior. I know quite a few black, Asian, eastern European and more in my work place..all earning at least 6 figures+ and they all have 4 things in common:
Impeccable manners
Smart appearance
Well spoken English
Well educated.

They don't come from privileged backgrounds or supportive homes often but they are all the above.. And so am I (refugee background)..

chomalungma · 20/01/2020 22:15

Does the typical white resident of Blackpool experience privilege deriving from their whiteness

I think you then answered your question
I have to admit fighting some prejudice in applications from someone with a typical white working class name, more so than I believe I do those from ethnic backgrounds

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chomalungma · 20/01/2020 22:16

Then perhaps you might take that as a sign that the left-wing doctrine of “privilege” that you accept as gospel does not enjoy much popular support outside Twitter

What do you think of this video?

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=hD5f8GuNuGQ&feature=emb_logo

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Namenic · 20/01/2020 22:19

Gov.uk figures for 2017/18 (2019 report) states that white gypsy/Roma pupils on free school meals were the least likely group to achieve a strong pass in maths and English.

www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/a-to-c-in-english-and-maths-gcse-attainment-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest

chomalungma · 20/01/2020 22:19

I fear that the insistence of the liberal left on the concept of white privilege will do more damage to race relations in Britain than the BNP ever did

Do you think blind applications is a good thing when it comes to job applications?

Do you think looking at why stop and search / arrest rates / chances of being jailed and why there are differences between BAME people and other groups is a good thing and asking why there appears to be such differences?

Or are you happy with the way things are?

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chomalungma · 20/01/2020 22:22

I fear that the insistence of the liberal left on the concept of white privilege will do more damage to race relations in Britain than the BNP ever did

What worries you about trying to bring about a level playing field in many areas of life for all people in the UK?

Such as blind job applications?
Looking at why there is a gender pay gap?
A BAME pay gap?

What worries you about trying to make things fairer?

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