To have confronted a mother smacking her child in public

[Roux95]

I was with OH in a clothes shop this afternoon looking for some bits. It was an extreme rarity for us to be child free so we were enjoying having a wander round without the double buggy!

When looking at some clothes I could hear a hysterical child having a tantrum, a hissing (parent i assume) and the sound of smacking. I looked around the racks I was browsing and sure enough a woman was knelt down at child height, hissing at the toddler to behave, smacked the child on the chest area and then went to smack the child's face but shot her hand down when she clocked that I was watching.

I was angered by what I saw and raised my voice at her to stop hitting the child, i told her we don't do that crap here (she was european - this is possibly not relevant but I know some cultures parent differently) and that her behaviour was disgusting and she should be ashamed and how would she like it if somebody her own size hit her.

This must have shocked the child as they stopped crying and the mother(?) sheepishly put the child into the pram rushed off.

OH was visibly embarrassed at being part of this confrontation but I think I was justified personally. In hindsight I think I could have said all of the above without raising my voice but my maternal instinct kicked in and I was furious for the child.

Was I being unreasonable for interesting? What would you have done?

I'm very cynical about the whole 'oh we can't be racist' thing. It sounds like a poor excuse. Why would the police be worried about offending people when children are in danger? That's Hillsborough levels of dereliction of duty.

Horrible thing for her to do, but assuming this happened in England, Wales or Northern Ireland then it was not a criminal offence.

It is a myth that smacking has been outlawed. It is an offence now if you use an implement (stick, slipper etc) or leave a bruise but otherwise it has not been outlawed.

Slightly different. But I once got involved in a husband beating his wife up o a very busy street. He punched her in the face and broke her jaw. I was stunned and reflexes kicked in and I screamed at him to stop. He came after me and caught me. Taking me down. Fortunate the wife called him away. All in front of a good 500 people. No one did anything. They went their ways. I had w phone call from the police to say he’d tried to stab some teenagers later that day.

I often wonder if I riled him up. If the wife got incredibly beaten when she got home. If I’d made the whole situation worse for her.

I don’t know. He stopped beating her when I intervened. It turned out he had a weapon. What if he’s stabbed me. What if I riled him up and caused the later events.

I feel 60-40 that I did the right thing. Then some days I don’t know if I did.

Do you feel you did the right thing? I thought I was superwoman at first. But it slowly dawned on me that maybe I’d gone about it the wrong way....

@speakout

Assaulting children in the world is illegal

Smacking in England is yet to be illegal

Use your words wisely.

I choose my words deliberately.

Smacking another human where I live is assault.

Why is smacking a child Ok, yet smacking an adult is assault?

@speakout.

I don’t think smacking an adult is illegal

Hitting an adult across the face is assault. There are definitions in law

You’ll have to take that up with your local politician.

Herringbone31

What world do you live in that it's OK to go around smacking people?
Are you serious?
Would you smack your child's teacher if you didn't agree with them? A shop assistant for giving you the wrong change?
A dentist because they didn't take you for an appointment on time?
Would you smack your child
I can assure you if someone smacked me I would be pressing assault charges.

Horrible thing for her to do, but assuming this happened in England, Wales or Northern Ireland then it was not a criminal offence.

Oh, THAT's ok then!
Move along everybody. Nothing to see here. Just a child being legally assaulted. Best not intervene, that's a legal slap, that is.

The law is of course never wrong on matters of violence ... after all, what could be wrong with domestic violence?
Until 1895 it was not a criminal offence to beat your wife.
Until 1991, it was not a criminal offence to rape her.
The law is an ass.
There is no moral defence for hitting a child, no matter what or whose laws you wish to quote.

Hitting anyone around the face is not acceptable. She wouldnt do it to an adult.
So why do it to a vulnerable child who cant fight back?
Violence like this has no place in civilised society and you were right to say something.
Someone has got to stick up for that poor child

What’s sad about this thread is that many people seem to be more concerned about whether OP was or wasn’t racist over whether she was a bystander to child abuse

Well said @BettyAll1. And I can't help but wonder if some of the more frothing "you are nothing but a racist" posts are actually from PPs subconciously diverting their outrage because they don't want to think too hard about how they hit their own children.

messolini9and @BettyAll1 I disagree it is possible to both say she was right to confront the woman about hitting her child but wrong to assume that she was hitting her child because she was not from the UK. She was making assumptions based on where she came from which was wrong. Unfortunately there are people from all countries who hit their children and they are all wrong.

Only on Mumsnet can someone talk about someone hitting a child about the chest and face and the thing that gets fixated on is her choice of words to the hitter 🙄

The OP didn't have to put exactly what she said to the woman. She could have thought for herself that it wasn't the right thing to say and made her post about was it right to confront the woman. She chose to bring other aspects into the discussion and other people are responding to them.

I haven't RTFT and I dont want to get into the smacking is wrong etc debate. But there is a big difference between a smack on the bum and hitting a child on the chest and the face. The first is (rightly or wrongly) punishment, the latter is abuse. Anyone that would hit a child like that in public will do much worse behind closed doors.
I think you were right to intervene, but in hindsight you could have done it in a better way. Maybe by engaging with the child rather than shouting at the mother and the comment about we dont do that here was a big mistake, I know you were angered by what you were seeing, but whether you meant it or not, it was a racist comment.

@speakout

Show me where I said it was ok?

Please copy and paste where I said it was ok? For my own eyes please

Ok i get you. Smacking a child on the chest and face totally unacceptable.

However who do you think you are ? Saying we don't do that here? Such prejudices. This country has a storm.of mental and emotional abuse and also physical abuse. It's just seedy and behind closed doors.

Yes what she done was wrong but I bet you are not a perfect parent.

Also reasonable force is allowed although from what you describe its not reasonable but your response and racism is appalling.

I don't use physical chastisment as I agree it's unacceptable but the OP is racist and rude.

I don’t think smacking an adult is illegal

Herringbone31

Some children do deserve a smack occassionally, if they've been repeatedly warned for example.

Some women do deserve a smack occassionally, if they've been repeatedly warned for example.

You’d be pressing charges for assault? Good luck with that it’s not up to you to decide, not even up to the police it’s down to the CPS to decide if a prosecution is in the public interests. Some of you’s would be in for a shock if something exciting ever happened in your lives.

Well done I guess, the child getting a worse beating later on is probably thanking you for it in between slaps

The sort of parent who will give a child a beating will do it, regardless. It is not the fault of any other person and is purely down to the animal that does it. A person who slaps a child in frustration might be made to think twice if someone says something.

Someone who gives a child "a worse beating" will do it simply because the child exists, not because of any or anything else. It is lazy and disingenuous to imply otherwise.

You were very unreasonable to say " we don't do that here". You sound like a judgemental person who likes to jump to conclusions. I disagree with smacking too but you have no idea what this woman is going through. What she did was not okay in any way but I don't think your response was okay either.

@speakout

So you believe that everything legal is ok? Or correct? And you agree with everything that is legal? By your definition. Because by me stating that something is LEGAL. That means it’s ok

Right......it’s legal to smoke in your baby’s room. Does that make it ok? I don’t think so.

Let’s look at the English dictionary definitions of ok and legal shall we? To confirm how you think?

Legal : relating to the law.
"the European legal system"
2.
permitted by law.
"he claimed that it had all been legal"

Ok:
A1
used to show that you agree with something or agree to do something:
"I'll pay you back tomorrow." "OK, no problem."
"Could you pick me up from work?" "OK, what time?"
I mean, OK (= I accept that), I wasn't exactly polite to him, but I don't think I was that rude!

As you can see. I never said it was ok. I purely said it was LEGAL. Two different words which have entirely different meanings.

Yakno if you pulled a woman up over clouting a kid in the chest and was gonna hit them in the face then fair play to you i couldn't give a fuck if you said something bad in the mix