To have confronted a mother smacking her child in public

[Roux95]

I was with OH in a clothes shop this afternoon looking for some bits. It was an extreme rarity for us to be child free so we were enjoying having a wander round without the double buggy!

When looking at some clothes I could hear a hysterical child having a tantrum, a hissing (parent i assume) and the sound of smacking. I looked around the racks I was browsing and sure enough a woman was knelt down at child height, hissing at the toddler to behave, smacked the child on the chest area and then went to smack the child's face but shot her hand down when she clocked that I was watching.

I was angered by what I saw and raised my voice at her to stop hitting the child, i told her we don't do that crap here (she was european - this is possibly not relevant but I know some cultures parent differently) and that her behaviour was disgusting and she should be ashamed and how would she like it if somebody her own size hit her.

This must have shocked the child as they stopped crying and the mother(?) sheepishly put the child into the pram rushed off.

OH was visibly embarrassed at being part of this confrontation but I think I was justified personally. In hindsight I think I could have said all of the above without raising my voice but my maternal instinct kicked in and I was furious for the child.

Was I being unreasonable for interesting? What would you have done?

It is a well known fact that smacking is perfectly normal and acceptable in some cultures, it's not racist to wonder whether that could be the (not reason but) explanation for somebody from elsewhere smacking a child.

I'm not at all racist and not bothered if you think I am.

Have a nice evening!

i have got at times I've never lost control and struck them

I gave me DS a wallop across the bum (as in one contact of my hand to his rump) when he was maybe 6-7yo.

We were in town, DS and DD (who was about 4) .. they kept walking in front of me , crossing over in order to bicker or prod (like young DC do)
I kept seperating them , "You on that side , you on that side " but they kept running in front of me , I nearly tripped over them .

We were going into a shop , there was a man ( elderly , relevant) on crutches .
DS darted across his path,

I had a nano second to act .
If I'd grabbed DS he'd most likely wriggled out if my grasp .
I grabbed his arm and gave him one smack- Stop what you are doing , NOW , there was not the time to shout or "reason" ( I love it when people say reason . I am the parent - sometimes , I don't need to "reason" )

If the man had fallen because of my DS frankly stupid behaviour he'd have been injured , we all know how a fall can result in serious injury .

I don't give a shiney if anyone disagress with my action.
My DS is 20, he's not a brutalised , damaged serial killer .
The man, was unharmed .(but it could've been different)

My DS remembered this and knows that an injury due to an accident is one thing, but an injury due to his preventable careless or stupid behaviour is quite different .

In some Christian cultures it is not just OK but expected parents will snack their kids. I've heard of this from cultures in the UK, USA and Africa and I expect there are plenty of other places. Assuming there might be a cultural reason for an activity is not racist.

This thread is bat shit. OP you did the right thing and o am only sorry more of us do not intervene more often.

The law in England (of that is where you are OP is not quite as straight forward as people seem to think. At least, I don't think it is anyway.

I find tgis website helpful.

childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/the-law-on-smacking-children

It is a well known fact that smacking is perfectly normal and acceptable in some cultures, it's not racist to wonder whether that could be the (not reason but) explanation for somebody from elsewhere smacking a child.
I'm sorry @Roux95. But you're making yourself sound worse. Yes, child rearing varies in different countries/cultures. But it's been pointed out a few times that the uk isn't some kind of leading pioneer in child protection, we haven't even fully banned smacking throughout the uk. So we are actually quite lacking compared to a lot of our European neighbours.
What country do you think she was from?

As I posted earlier I don't think you were wrong saying something, but honestly re reading and reading your updates. You seem less concerned about the child's welfare than about the parent being in the wrong.

But the op saying 'we don't do that here' @Italiangreyhound does come across as racist. Who's 'we'? I wouldn't think to say anything like that because I know that the uk is made up of people from a variety of cultures, races and religions. Other than hearing a different language spoken, what reason did the Op have to believe the mother wasn't from 'here'. I work with a lot of families who's first language is not English and you would hear them speak another language to their children. But they were born in the uk, they have British passports and consider themselves very much British.

GirlOnIt you are seeing it as racist, but her race is not even mentioned and is unknown.

Maybe in some parts of the UK some behaviors are more acceptable so it could be a regional belief that this or that is OK or not OK. You know she mentioned thinking 'European' so you believe it is racial, not cultural.

Personally, I think the OP was actually saying there may be a reason for her behaviour based on culture, not race.

By the way I am a Christian and I know some cultures within some churches do believe some different beliefs or behaviors are OK (not just around smacking children). Some I may not find OK. Perhaps in some different Christian denominations that I don't belong to.

Did the OP do the right thing? I think so.

Anyway, I think the OP was courageous and was thinking of the child so all these negative comments about her sound very hollow to me.

I'm out.

Good luck OP.

Only on Mumsnet would someone say they saw a child being abused and receive six pages of pedantic fucking nonsense about racism.

Well done Mumsnet, you have spectacularly missed the bloody point yet again.

Give me fucking strength.

Well done for saying something Op. That abusive twat of a parent might think twice before raising her hand to a toddler again.

Dearheart a good point (made much better than I tried to make it very early on in the thread).

Well, what we do in the heat of the moment reveals our issues...

The mother smacked her child in the heat of the moment

The OP made a racist comment in the heat of the moment

The behaviour anyone reverts to in the heat of the moment is very telling

I still say well done for sticking up for the child. But yes, the OP definitely has subconscious racial bias. It's not a competition to decide which is worse 🤷🏻‍♀️

Exactly @HobbyIsCodeForDogging

Doesn't make someone with racist feelings a Saint even if they did good in another aspect of life

@Roux95 on behalf of all children I'd like to thank you for standing up for that poor little bairn. In in my late 30's now and clearly remember being abought 6? In a busy shopping centre, one minute we were all laughing as my dad had made up something really silly and comical about my mum, me having no filter at that age laughed too as was everyone and I said oh dad you liar! He stopped laughing immediately and smacked me so hard in my face I flew backwards and almost cracked my head on the floor if it wasn't for my mum throwing her arms out to stop me, it was so hard it stunned me , dazed me? As I remember my brother brought it back up and said how my dad hit me like a man would hit another man? Well anyways what sticks in my mind and hurts is not one single person out of one of the biggest shopping center in England called him out or reported ot, people just walked past like it wasnt happening. I wish the police had been involved I might have been saved from years of beatings and mental abuse. So fuck everyone else here thankyou OP

Funnily enough the very next dsdy my parents went out and bought me a tamagotchi toy that was the craze, hmm stinks of guilt

It is a well known fact that smacking is perfectly normal and acceptable in some cultures

Right...like England, I suppose? After all, smacking is illegal in the vast majority of European countries, but not that one.

@HobbyIsCodeForDogging
100%

You had me up until we don't do that crap here (she was European)

This. And not because you said it, because you thought it.

@Raspberrytruffle

I am so sorry you went through that 💔

Whether it is or isn’t legal, I think most people would be shocked and appalled to see a 3 year old be smacked in the chest and face by an adult.

I would have followed my gut instinct and shouted at the women (it may not have been her mother).

I’ve called out people for smacking more than once. They’ve generally been men and English.

@Retroflex Thank you for your clarification. You are quite right to say that smacking a child is now illegal in Scotland. The Scottish Smacking Bill became law last year. A proposed bill in Wales is also going through. However, we still don't have a UK wide ban on smacking a child. And of course I believe that Scotland is part of the U.K. 👍😄

'Stop hitting the child' - reasonable
'We don't do that crap here' - unreasonable
'Your behaviour is disgusting' - unreasonable
'You should be ashamed' - unreasonable
'how would you like it if somebody your own size hit you' - unreasonable

Shouting these things is embarrassing. I understand your dh. Had you spoken 'please stop hitting the child, are you ok? Do you want some help?'
Or intervened by distracting the child, you would be completely reasonable.

However, you said she'd already stopped herself when she realised you were watching. So there was no need for the outburst, which probably made her cross and defensive.

European. English people are Europeans, certainly now. Unfortunately there is no EU law protecting EU children from smacking in England.
I'm not sure how you know she was not 'from here' or part of 'we', but you clearly implied that she did not belong, and 'we' are better.
That was incorrect and unreasonable.

Exactly, as @poetryinaction explains. This is confronting child abuse with racial abuse.

If you think racism is justified in certain circumstances (like this), or this is not racism, you are certainly blinded by your own privilege. You don’t need to is the “n” word to be racist.

Off topic but on holiday last year in Spain where smacking is banned since 2005 I believe I saw 3 different children at different tunes smacked. I was shocked as I’ve never seen it in England in recent time’s

'Pedantic nonsense about racism' - I suppose you've never been the victim of racial abuse?

Yes saying sth was right. What was said was definitely not right.
Let's think for a minute how this made the mother feel:

• being shouted at in public - humiliated.
• being told 'we don't do that here' - excluded

Is she more likely to seek help if she needs it and assuming she is indeed an immigrant (may not have been) - no, quite the opposite. Has this intervention helped the child? Probably not and possibly the opposite. We are all humans, we make mistakes, have some compassion. You knew nothing of what she was going through and why she lost control. Berating her was not helpful. Especially as the point you were making (presumably) was about the need to respect others (her child) and treat them with dignity. Intervene yes by all means but think about how best to intervene next time.

@Raspberrytruffle thank you for sharing. I’m so sorry to hear this. What’s sad about this thread is that many people seem to be more concerned about whether OP was or wasn’t racist over whether she was a bystander to child abuse. You only have to look in the news at the Rotherham tragedy to see that in the UK we get this so wrong over and over again. Political correctness and a fear of being racist needs to be put aside when it comes to protecting children, they come first. I wouldn’t have said what OP said because in my mind, what that woman did would not be acceptable in any culture.