To have confronted a mother smacking her child in public

[Roux95]

I was with OH in a clothes shop this afternoon looking for some bits. It was an extreme rarity for us to be child free so we were enjoying having a wander round without the double buggy!

When looking at some clothes I could hear a hysterical child having a tantrum, a hissing (parent i assume) and the sound of smacking. I looked around the racks I was browsing and sure enough a woman was knelt down at child height, hissing at the toddler to behave, smacked the child on the chest area and then went to smack the child's face but shot her hand down when she clocked that I was watching.

I was angered by what I saw and raised my voice at her to stop hitting the child, i told her we don't do that crap here (she was european - this is possibly not relevant but I know some cultures parent differently) and that her behaviour was disgusting and she should be ashamed and how would she like it if somebody her own size hit her.

This must have shocked the child as they stopped crying and the mother(?) sheepishly put the child into the pram rushed off.

OH was visibly embarrassed at being part of this confrontation but I think I was justified personally. In hindsight I think I could have said all of the above without raising my voice but my maternal instinct kicked in and I was furious for the child.

Was I being unreasonable for interesting? What would you have done?

Cheesespreading I'm sorry for what happened to you, but did it really make it worse, or was it just the same as ever, but with the fact that someone had intervened used as an excuse? Carrying the burden of the secret of abuse is almost as painful for a child as being hit - I never wanted people to know because I thought they would judge ME as being trouble, from a bad family, or maybe that I was badly behaved and had done something to deserve it. I genuinely think that if an adult had ever intervened, I might have encouraged me to open up to a teacher or some trusted adult about it and get some help. The only thing that happened was a neighbour seeing what was going on and threatening to call the police. It was almost a shock to me that my reality was not normal, and it gave me a bit of hope. Like I said though, perhaps people need to play in by ear when deciding which approach is the best to take.

Beat not vested.

UpfieldHatesWomen I do see your point. I knew the abuse was wrong though, I read a lot of those types of books when younger and it confirmed it for me. So from that point of view someone calling it out wouldn’t have helped me to see it as wrong I was just so scared of my mum I didn’t tell anyone. She denied it all too when I confronted her about it as an adult.

She denied it all too when I confronted her about it as an adult.
She sounds like a narc, mine was too. In that case, unfortunately there's perhaps little that can be done by others apart from going down an official route. I don't think others should be encouraged to not intervene though, in other situations it may help.

So some of you wouldn't intervene? For a child being slapped in the chest and face? You're arseholes, just to let you know. It is not the OPs fault if this lovely sounding mother goes into hit her child at home.

ExohExohGossipgirl what did she actually say out loud?

Hopefully, the child will understand that someone intervening means it isn't right to hit your child. Maybe it will change things on the future. At least the child will know it is not normal.

You had me up until we don't do that crap here (she was European) -
Me too. You were not unreasonable to confront her but very unreasonable to make sweeping statements like that.

@Those who are defending the OP's choice of words: British people frequently refer to "Europe" and "European" in order to specifically describe someone or something that's not British, see here en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Europe:

In both Great Britain and Ireland, the Continentis widely and generally used to refer to the mainland of Europe. An apocryphal British newspaper headline supposedly once read, "Fog in Channel; Continent Cut Off".[4] It has also been claimed that this was a regular weather forecast in Britain in the 1930s.[5] In addition, the word Europe itself is also regularly used to mean Europe excluding the islands of Great Britain, Iceland, and Ireland (although the term is often used to refer to the European Union[6]). The term mainland Europeis also sometimes used. Usage may reflect political or cultural allegiances. Pro-European UK citizens are much less likely to use "Europe" in ways that exclude the UK and Ireland.

she was too old to have a toddler
Bloody hell.

Of course she could be too old to have a toddler. I am often out with my toddler GD no one ever thinks I'm her mother because I'm obviously too old. Hasten to say I would never hit her though!

I haven't read all the replies as I'm having a busy day but I will check back later when I have more than a few minutes.

I do accept I was in the wrong for making the comment "we don't do that here"

I was responding in the heat of the moment and didn't think through what I was going to say. It just blurted out. I'm sorry if I have offended anybody - to appear racist was definitely not my intention.

I also accept I was wrong about it being illegal to smack children now. I genuinely believed it was, and agreed with that. Still, legal or not I think it should be illegal and there is no place for it in a civilised society.

The woman in the shop was smacking the child in anger, it was no attempt at reinforcing discipline purely an outlet for her frustration as the child wasn't behaving and was having a tantrum.

I wanted to report it to the police but OH said I shouldn't because she had long gone and we had no way of identifying her.

The purpose of me intervening was in the hope she would then think twice before doing it again, if she knew the public abhorred this type of behaviour.

If I could go back and choose my wording differently I absolutely would. Also, the reason I pointed out the fact the woman wasn't from here was because she was addressing the child in another language - though did appear to understand what I was saying or at least get the gist of it.

In the uk, it’s not normal to smack your child round the face even if it is in other parts of Europe.

Corporal punishment is more widely accepted in the UK than most parts of Europe.

@BabyEI "Smacking a child is illegal in sixty countries but sadly still not illegal in the UK. The Association of Educational Psychologists (AEP) is calling for a ban. Hopefully, it happens soon."

Your information is incorrect, unless of course you don't count Scotland as being in the "UK" because it is illegal to smack your child here...

So she spoke another language but understood English, ergo she must have been European? Weird conclusion!

I am quite shocked that alot of posters are more appalled by my wording in the heat of the moment than they are about a toddler being walloped multiple times by a caregiver.

I have two young children one of which has additional needs so I know all about tantrums and challenging behaviour, miraculously - as frustrated i have got at times I've never lost control and struck them.

Alot of pedantic replies here, but to clarify I don't support "tapping the child on the hand" either but used that as an example to show how what this parent did was at the opposite end of the scale. The woman was furious and lashing out, not just using an ineffective method of discipline. It was intentional violence.

As for the troll hunting, report away if you wish. If I wanted to stir up drama I could think of less serious and more entertaining subjects than a child being hurt, if I were that way inclined

I think it’s the pure fact that “in the heat of the moment” that that is the phrase which came immediately and instinctively to you which is problematic. It’s not an excuse, though it seems to be a reason.

Maybe you should take up some reading around the subject of intersectionality. Saying that’s what came to you “in the heat of the moment” shows a very worrying attitude hidden within you, can’t you see?

"She wasn't from here because she was addressing the child in another language" - seriously OP you need to stop the casual racism. I may address my kids in French occasionally to continue to build their understanding (they're otherwise fully British) but I've been here 17yrs (all my adult years) and completely fluent otherwise. I could even have British nationality if I wanted to.

I also hope that my British children will continue to speak French and God forbid may speak French occasionally to their own kids. My British friend (German mother, grew up in the UK) occasionally speaks German to her kids.

How many times on here does someone say “X has done this horrific thing” and everyone says “SHE MIGHT BE FROM A CULTURE WHERE THAT IS OK”. Maybe that’s what OP had in mind when she made her comment. I don’t know why people are jumping on it in a bid to be the most “woke”.

You hardly see that flavour of cultural relativism at all on Mumsnet, and by way of exmaple I point you to the almost universal outrage on MN when Dr Christian Jessen suggested that we should not view men who marry children as sexual abusers when it is considered normal within their own culture.

you might be able to do that where you're from

This sounds horrifically racist...

How many times on here does someone say “X has done this horrific thing” and everyone says “SHE MIGHT BE FROM A CULTURE WHERE THAT IS OK”. Maybe that’s what OP had in mind when she made her comment. I don’t know why people are jumping on it in a bid to be the most “woke”.

Thank you CSR, that is precisely it.

I hold my hands up to the potential of being ignorant but I'm certainly not racist. I have mixed children and many friends from different backgrounds. I am not hostile to any race, religion or culture.

I did say in one of my first posts that this was pretty much what i meant, although perhaps it wasn't appropriate to say. Fair enough

Though as pointed out some cultures parent very differently. I don't know what the general consensus is for smacking in say Poland or Latvia for example.

It crossed my mind in the moment that perhaps physical discipline was commonplace in the culture the mother was from and that came out in my wording. I don't think it's racist of me to assume for a split second, as opposed to
automatically assuming she was was just a cruel fucker who enjoyed hitting her kids.

Either way there was no racism intended.

The people who were saying it's none of your business, and that you were being racist, are utterly ridiculous.
The child is the only concern here, and not the feelings of her abusive mother.
I can just see this as a reverse: 'I was at the shops with my 3 year old, and she was behaving like a brat. So I slapped her on the chest, and was just about to slap her face, when some interfering English cow told me off'.
Yeah, like that would go down well 🙄
YANBU OP, and in fact, good on you. What she did was wrong, whether illegal or not.

I disagree that the racism isn't relevant. It is relevant whether it was intentional or not.

As a young, white, English woman, I'm so sick of being assumed to be racist or xenophobic because of comments like the one OP made.

Child abuse is abhorrent and racism is abhorrent. Neither is ok in any instance and it's not ok to be racist if someone else is doing something you personally deem to be worse.