Laurence Fox on Question Time

[SuckingDieselFella]

It isn't ok to try and shut anyone up with remarks about their skin colour. It doesn't matter if that skin colour is white, black or green with purple spots.

His fellow actors have been told to "denounce" him. It looks like he can wave goodbye to his career. What lovely tolerant people the ultra woke are.
www.thestage.co.uk/news/2020/laurence-fox-labelled-a-disgrace-to-industry-following-question-time-race-row/

If there is no anti Semitism, why are the police investigating four cases?

"Only certain races experience racism"

Not what I said at all was it, poor attempt at deflection, you aren't very good at this are you?

You appear to be deciding that certain words and actions which other people tell you are racist are not.

My point was that it was clear on MN prior to the election that most posters are very clear about how the use of language that is not overt can racist connotations, but it seems only when applied to one group, and only when politically convenient.

@Sagradafamiliar
"Thank you for taking the time out of your snarling to prove my point. This is the only social media I'm on and I'm not going anywhere."

Then why not use your time usefully and try to make a contribution?

@malylis
"Not what I said at all was it, poor attempt at deflection, you aren't very good at this are you? "

On the contrary, I'm very good at spotting double standards.

Do you accept there is anti Semitism in the Labour party?

What would it look like to a POC if white privilege was fully acknowledged, I wonder? How would a conversation play out?

I think people need really specific examples of what is an appropriate way to respond, from a POC’s perspective. Then this can be critiqued by those who want to do so. It would at least acknowledge a POC’s view and that they are being heard.

@malylis
"You appear to be deciding that certain words and actions which other people tell you are racist are not.

My point was that it was clear on MN prior to the election that most posters are very clear about how the use of language that is not overt can racist connotations, but it seems only when applied to one group, and only when politically convenient."

Nonsense.

As for OP, you are not being U, the narrow minded track that IDPOL has taken us down is starting to unfold.

I am far more privileged than many of white women who tell me that I still can't be racist towards a white woman because of the new academic meaning which blurs the lines.

It's another attempt for usually middle class white women to instill themselves into a situation and pretend how woke they are, lived experience is only done through a prism of Guardian CIF articles and what has the most twitter likes.

It is embarrassing, it should be a moment for reflection after the recent GE, but they keep blaming the daily mail and MSM, while they get their news from twitter and blog posts whilst not understanding the bubble they are in.

The physpical groan against the woman who has previously worked for the BBC shows it is becoming a tired rhetoric as it doesn't stand up to scrutiny outside of very defined criteria.

Isn't nonsense at all.

Its an accurate critique of your bullshit

You aren't very good at spotting double standards if you didn't get my point.

OP do not @ me again. I'm bored of your nasty thread.

@malylis
"Isn't nonsense at all.

Its an accurate critique of your bullshit"

What a well-reasoned argument.

Who gave you authority to say what other races might find offensive? Have you asked? Do you even know anyone who is a different race from yourself?

@Sagradafamiliar
I am not worthy to address you?

But you have the right to call me a nasty idiot?

You haven't grasped how this discussion thingy works.

Do not fucking @ me again. You know it's not the done thing here. You know you're being passive aggressive. Do not do it again.

@Sagradafamiliar
"Do not fucking @ me again. You know it's not the done thing here. You know you're being passive aggressive. Do not do it again."

Do not swear at me, do not call me names, do not tell me what to do.

If you don't like the discussion, why do you keep responding?

You have nothing to contribute apart from abuse, which says it all about your standpoint on this issue.

Can people not see that there is a huge deflection going on here? Danny Baker sent that tweet after Archie’s birth - that really explicitly says something (also how people defended him). We have had attacks on Jewish cemeteries and symbols being painted on public spaces.

This is not on. We don’t need to tie ourselves in knots over language when explicit behaviour is there, in our faces telling us this country has a problem.

And I say this as a language specialist who is not undermining how important it is to use language consciously just that we are way beyond that point now and the media is not the arbiter of truth here.

What would it look like to a POC if white privilege was fully acknowledged, I wonder? How would a conversation play out?

It seems clearer and clearer to me that that’s not the point of the conversation at all. The point is for either side to dig a really deep trench and then throw grenades at the ‘opposition’. Meanwhile, the general public sits in no-mans-land and just thinks WTF?

I’ve said multiple times that this isn’t about trying to build a better society - it’s about keeping all those toxic and privileged white males in their place and then moaning about them when they refuse to stay there.

The world’s gone mad.

@malylis
"I didn't claim any authority, I said the pearl clutching here about it was false and for political expediency, as is proven here by your own thread."

As I said earlier, you have a well-rehearsed argument about "the Tories" or some such that you want to deliver.

One the one hand you say that abuse of some races is manufactured and baseless. On the other you're telling us that racism against a public figure isn't taken seriously enough.

You can't be selective about it. If it's worth taking seriously, all victims need to be listened to.

@TherealMcKenna

We don’t seem to think as a society anymore though do we? We just have specialist representatives of certain ideas and as you say, the general public are left bewildered by conversations, views and conclusions that they have no part in.

We are never going to build a society that works from there - we need to think about what a good society would look like to different groups, how we can get there and how we address problems so that they don’t fall on the most vulnerable but are also distributed fairly.

We have little infrastructure in place for that which our media amplifies.

I think that leaves people fighting ideological, abstract battles at times.

oh didn't you know suckingDieselFella Jews don't count when it comes to sticking up for minorities up against racism. Any mention of it is usually played down (usually by the people who speak/think it) and suggested it has been blown out of proportion or doesn't exist at all.

I'm astonished a professional journalist wouldn't know the connotations of "uppity." Especially given that it was also used about Barack Obama in 2008

But the link is to The New York Times in 2008 - not a British newspaper.

I can see that TV presenter Eamonn Holmes has been blasted for describing Meghan Markle as "uppity" - except that when I clicked on the recording provided by The Sun newspaper he doesn't actually use the word "uppity" - he quite clearly says "uppy attitude." If "uppity" is a specific racial slur in America, then "uppy" would appear to be a completely different word altogether - with a different meaning.Why is everyone reporting that Eamonn Holmes said "uppity" when he said "uppy"?

www.thesun.co.uk/news/10410459/eamonn-holmes-ofcom-meghan-markle-complaint/

I also found several other references to "uppity" in connection to the royals.

The Times - May 2016 - so pre MM:

"It’s a tricky proposition, poking fun at the royal family. It’s no longer the mainstream pursuit it once seemed to be.If you were a kid growing up in the 1980s or early 1990s, you could be forgiven for assuming that they were fair game; awkward, distant figures who could not only withstand a ribbing, but who practically demanded one.Spitting Image regularly gave them an absolute beasting and my own Prince Charles impression always attracted a crowd in the playground, provided that there weren’t any double-jointed kids around to steal the limelight."

"Those were more uppity times." "Savaging the royals via exquisitely observed mimicry isn’t something I imagine kids spend much time doing these days"...

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ben-machell-on-tv-this-was-my-prince-charles-impression-from-school-zjzx852b6

The other reference (trouble linking - easy to find if you google) is an article from 1989:

"Fergie dresses like a hillbilly & walks like a duck!"
"UPPITY [their capital letters] fashion expert Mr. Blackwell blasted poor Sarah Ferguson"...

"Despite dumping 45 pounds off her once chubby bod...Sarah Ferguson has been savagely attacked for her lousy taste in clothes and her look. America's feared fashion guru Mr. Blackwell has branded the Duchess of York a "fashion obscenity who walks like a duck with a bad leg." Not stopping there, Mr.Blackwell compares the red-haired royal to a hillbilly when it comes to choosing clothes."She runs around looking as if she makes beds in Ireland or milks cows. She's as badly dressed as anybody I've seen in the backwoods" he said."

Charming!