Laurence Fox on Question Time

[SuckingDieselFella]

It isn't ok to try and shut anyone up with remarks about their skin colour. It doesn't matter if that skin colour is white, black or green with purple spots.

His fellow actors have been told to "denounce" him. It looks like he can wave goodbye to his career. What lovely tolerant people the ultra woke are.
www.thestage.co.uk/news/2020/laurence-fox-labelled-a-disgrace-to-industry-following-question-time-race-row/

My opinion is that a lot of woke people are patronising to BAME people. I remember a thread about cultural appropriation regarding food. One poster said that regarding hummous (sp. however you choose) we should not buy Sainsbury's etc but ask a woman of colour for an authentic recipe . I couldn't help thinking WTF? Unless you were actually discussing hummous and knew for sure they were a keen cook they'd think you were insane. Assuming that every BAME woman is busy cooking authentic, culturally traced appropriate food at home is sexist and patronising.

I was shocked at how unpleasant he was on gogglebox. Thought he was an arrogant entitled bully on qt.

I said the character he played was a Nazi sympathiser (during World War II), not Laurence Fox, who obviously isn't that. I have no idea what his actual political views are, though presumably he isn't left wing and P.C. considering what he said. (I didn't see Question Time, I'm only going by what some of you have said.

I apologise for saying he was clearly playing himself; I was responding to a humorous comment in kind. He's a very good actor, as he can clearly play both types convincingly.

I don't know, it might be the case that he was unfairly criticised, as the accusation of racism is bandied about far too much these days. That would make him something of an idiot, though, for not realising that his remarks would rebound on him negatively. (And describing racism as 'boring', as a non BAME person is incredibly ill-judged to say the least.)

My point was that he clearly isn't like Hathaway in real life. He's an actor who has played other roles. I was responding to a humorous comment in kind.

If you have no idea what his political views are, then why did you say playing a Nazi sympathiser was playing his real self?

These cheap, throwaway remarks just won't do any more with a fair chunk of the population.

I would hope that he reads your remark and takes you and Mumsnet-for allowing it to stand-to court for libel.

pauline

Are you assuming everyone disagreeing with you is left wing?

I am a privileged wealthy Tory voter with DC in private schools. I am also married to a North African Muslim. It has changed my perspective on what it is like to be “other” in this country.

I understand your argument that a rich child of Asian heritage has more opportunities than a white child from a deprived background. My DC get told very firmly how lucky they are.

However, a BAME person from a deprived background will face issues relating to their ethnicity that a white person from the same background wouldn’t.

LF will face fewer issues relating to his ethnicity than DS1’s ethnically Black African friend who also went to Harrow.

In fact, I think I'll alert him to it and then maybe we can see just how humorously he takes it.

I would LOVE some real examples of racism by posters here.

What are you looking for? Actual use of the ‘n’ word?

I can’t decide if people are being genuinely stupid or disingenuous when they won’t acknowledge that racism takes many forms, much of it far, far more subtle than throwing out racist terms.

Racism often plays at a subconscious level. There are lots of people out there who are racially discriminating against people in subtle ways and aren’t even aware they’re doing it.

The MM debacle is a case in point. She’s being held to different standards to the rest of the royals and yes, I believe racism is a part of that.

So every time Meghan is criticised doing things that other royals are not criticised for (editing magazines, taking private jets while lecturing about climate change, using public money for Frogmore) it’s partly because on some level people feel white blue blood royals are more entitled to do this than mixed race American blow in royals.

Anti Americanism is playing here too, which muddies the water further.

Whoops, bad editing there, I wish it was possible to edit after posting!

Also.....I genuinely wouldn’t have known she was black if you hadn’t told me. She’s had her nose done and obv doesn’t leave her hair in its natural Afro so it really isn’t v noticeable (by her own doing)

Same here. I didn't realise this, until I saw at the wedding that her mum is black. (I took no interest in the romance before that, I only knew she was a Hollywood actress.) I thought it was lovely that Prince Charles walked MM down the isle and then accompanied her mum.

My opinion is that a lot of woke people are patronising to BAME people. I remember a thread about cultural appropriation regarding food. One poster said that regarding hummous (sp. however you choose) we should not buy Sainsbury's etc but ask a woman of colour for an authentic recipe . I couldn't help thinking WTF? Unless you were actually discussing hummous and knew for sure they were a keen cook they'd think you were insane. Assuming that every BAME woman is busy cooking authentic, culturally traced appropriate food at home is sexist and patronising. This is a problem and doesn't help anyone because it makes relationships awkward.
It's wrong to say that there is no racism in this country. That would just be ludicrous. My DH's ex boss is black and had a lot of racism in his job and in his army career. He really valued my DH and they worked well together. My DH had no problem questioning things and pointing out where things might be done better. They had a great working relationship. Surely this is what we're aiming at. Not making great statements about 'white privilege'.

The fact that one personally wasn’t aware than MM was mixed race isn’t particularly relevant.

It was always public knowledge. The discourse around her, created by press, commentators, social media, was shaped by the fact.

We all pick up (consciously or not) on the context a person is presented to us in.

@paulinespeaksmanylanguages

I would gladly apologise if he complained to me. It's not actually untrue, as he did play that character. (The character was the murderer actually.) I was being flippant, as I've watched him in both roles this week.

But I hardly think he'll care about what some middle-aged woman says about him on Mumsnet.

I love him. He's a feminist and takes no woke bollox nonsense. Believes in biology not feelings.

I think his point about the children abused in Manchester cos police were too scared to offend re racism was spot on.

I'm afraid I also groaned when the ' what about a woman ' brigade amen on when he expressed a preference for a male labour candidate. I'd always vote for the right person. Sex or colour doesn't come into it.

And Megan markle is vilified by the press cos she's a woman. Not cos of her ethnicity.

My opinion is that a lot of woke people are patronising to BAME people

They are. Speaking as a person of colour (🙄) they essentially treat us like pets. They pay us on the head as they use us to further their agenda but the language that appears when we disobey them and have opinions of our own is disgusting at times. The whole thing is totally hollow and insincere, the woke left is packed full of seething racists who most definitely view the minorities that they claim to speak for as lesser than them.

I concur about MM being black. I had no idea she was even mixed race until her wedding was on telly and I saw her mum. I'm fully aware that racism exists in the UK but I'm deeply suspicious of accusations of it regarding MM because I doubt she's perceived as black by more than a handful of people.

And Megan markle is vilified by the press cos she's a woman. Not cos of her ethnicity.

I think it’s a complex mix of her ethnicity, nationality, occupation and also her sex. But more the fact that she’s a confident woman, not afraid her mind.

What we seem to want from royal wives are pretty dolls who rarely open their mouths beyond pleasantries.

The first thing I thought when I heard his comments on QT was that he’d been reading The Madness of Crowds. A quick search through some interviews with him and it turns out I was right - he quotes the book several times.

It seems to be rapidly turning into the anti-woke Bible.

They are. Speaking as a person of colour (🙄) they essentially treat us like pets. That must be fucking awful. Worse than some fuckwit shouting nasty language in the street?

I think his point about the children abused in Manchester cos police were too scared to offend re racism was spot on.

That was part of it, I think. But it would have been different if the victims weren't in care and judged because of it.

But more the fact that she’s a confident woman, not afraid her mind. For me it's mostly that she talks drivel or talks about important subjects in an empty way.

I thought he came across as arrogant

The argument is really about unless direct language or actions are used then there is no racism (or sexism etc) and that is for those more powerful in society to decide when it occurs and when it’s real

If a person calls out racism but it’s indirect they are asked what they mean, how do they know and more often than not accused of being over sensitive/playing race card and so on. Who decides ....

Well it’s been the most powerful to decide and that is now being openly challenged and many are finding this unsettling

I’m not sure where I stand on the “what about the 4 women” comment. I find it really depressing that of the 5 in the leadership race the vast majority of people, without much understanding or knowledge of policies and beliefs etc, already think the man is most likely to do a good job. And I do think that TM got an unfair lack of support from her predominantly male party in part because she was a woman. I even think they knew how poisoned a chalice the early work of brexit was and lined her up for it.

I concur about MM being black. I had no idea she was even mixed race until her wedding was on telly and I saw her mum.

I only realised when it was mentioned on here close to the wedding. I believed her to be of Arabic or Latina descent. I have repeatedly been told I am being disingenuous and had the face aimed at me for saying that and yet it's true. It was very frustrating. This is why I cannot accept the idea that only a POC can decide for me if I am being racist.

Megan Markle may not been perceived as black or mixed race by many but she is I don’t get this argument we all know she is

And she certainly isn’t a white woman other non white people are subjected to racism and prejudice they is different stereotyping but racism is still directed at them

Lifecraft and Pukkatea have put it very well and is also my understanding of white privilege.

People get too hung up on the privilege bit of the term hence the confusion for some - eg but white people are poor, walked on, killed etc

I've tried to talk to other white people about it by asking them to tell me the last time they had to think about being white (before of course we started discussing race) or the last time they thought someone had discriminated against them because they were white.

I have experienced racism as a white person - 1. Spat on 2. Refused service in a shop 3. Asked to leave and I know it was racism because it was accompanied with slurs about my colour eg the shop one was ' we don't sell to white people'

Point is that was 3 times in my entire life - not ok, not nice, not right but about 100 x less then my friends who are POC - and I can't think of a single time in my life where it could have been an issue with my race but couldn't prove it.

That's the privilege but - to have not had it day in and day out

But I do also understand how people will think what's so privileged about it only being 3 times - it is simple but yet also sometimes nuanced to understand

Interestingly about being dual heritage why can't Meghan identify as white if she wanted to? She is per my understanding as much white as black but I often see people of colour kinda refuse to acknowledge the other part of her heritage and say she is a black woman

My rule of thumb if I even have to refer to someone's race at all is to follow their lead so if Meghan told me she is a black woman then that's what I would use but I thought she uses terms such as dual heritage/mixed race in how she refers to herself?

I'm not trying to be obtuse - I can appreciate the importance for black people but I have to admit to being a bit perplexed about why mixed race people necessarily have to be one or the other - Obama is another example - he is referred to being a black man but what about the other 50% of himself?

Archie is 3 quarters white but he may identify as black when he grows up it shouldn't he? (He can actually do as he pleases of course)