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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Is this teacher being unreasonable?

306 replies

OhHolyJesus · 16/01/2020 22:46

3rd time lucky, genuinely not being goady, I'm seriously concerned reading this teacher's account and I want to share so others can be aware and see how it is from a teacher's perspective.

This is from Safe Schools Alliance:

I am utterly horrified at what was taught at a PSHE lesson at my school recently. It was to a group of children, most are 11-12 years old. It is so, so much worse than I thought.
The topic was LGBT and Diversity. The kids were taught that biological sex is your anatomy (genitals etc), however, male, female and intersex are genders and are on a spectrum. They were told that people can identify however they want -- as male or female. Some people identify as neither; some identify as non-binary. The teachers spoke about lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people. They explained a lesbian is attracted to ‘other women’, but it was clear that if anyone can identify as a woman then ‘other women’ may actually be men. ‘Cisgender’ was also mentioned and the kids were told that ‘a cisgender person is someone who identifies with the sex they were assigned at birth’. Sex and gender were conflated throughout the lesson and sometimes they were used as synonyms. The kids went home thinking God knows what.
The kids were also told briefly about bestiality, sex toys and masturbation. I really, truly wish that I was kidding. I don’t know who brought up bestiality but the teachers should have shut this down immediately and explained that it is inappropriate, not to mention illegal in the UK. Nothing of the sort. One of the teachers said it was a sexuality whereby some people are attracted to and have sex with animals. It was talked about like it is completely normal. The other things that were taught, were sex toys and masturbation. The kids were told about how people “pleasure themselves”, that some women use a vibrator and some men masturbate to pornography.
I feel disgusted and disheartened. I feel a lesson like that should be reported to the headteacher and the governors but I don’t think it will be dealt with appropriately. The school has form for not taking safeguarding seriously. I feel like I’m going mad and I’m wrong. I know I’m not, but it feels like it. I hope that the parents will say something. They must. Some of the boys [in our school] act a lot older than their age. They are always making inappropriate sexual comments or asking inappropriate sexual questions. I suspect some are also watching pornography online. A couple are obsessed with murder, rape [of girls], suicide and corporal punishment. The sort of PSHE lesson I witnessed will do nothing to challenge their unhealthy attitudes to sex, relationships and women.
We also have a student who is transgender. A girl who identifies as a boy. We were told to use male pronouns to use for her. There was no discussion. I don’t think this is in [the student’s] best interests but I felt unable to say anything. A teacher was reprimanded by a colleague for using ‘she’ for this girl. I [have been] forced to lie to a student. She used ‘she’ for the [transboy] and was told off by a teacher. I am being forced to actively lie. I feel that I cannot safeguard my students effectively. I am worried and scared for the kids-- especially our girls – what they’re being told and being forced to use mixed-sex toilets. At this point, I think that the only thing that will stop all this madness is some poor young girl being harmed. The local council is in meltdown. [We] have sent them two letters. They haven’t responded to the second one but from the response to the first one they don’t see any safeguarding issues. Ofsted and the DfE are on board the trans train. The DfE is funding Mermaids. Who are teachers supposed to turn to?
Teacher, 32, England

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OhHolyJesus · 17/01/2020 14:11

@Catsandchardonnay

Do you have children OP? What would you do if one of them said to you they identify as a different gender? Would you refuse to accept it or try to support them? Would you prefer your child has information about the way they feel or that they feel isolated?

Yes I do have one child. If he said he felt like a girl I would talk to him about why he feels this way. I would comfort him and support him but I would not have this idea affirmed by other family members, a doctor or at school. If they did I would challenge this and if it was from a professional I would complain and escalate this complaint and I would remove him and/or limit his contact with the person who lies to him. I would explore it with him but I would not tell him a lie about science any more than I would have him taught that the Earth was flat.

Would I want my child to feel isolated? What do you think? What a ridiculous question. I, like most loving parents, will protect my child with every fibre of my being until my last breath. To doubt this is to criticise my parenting and we are strangers to each other. If you knew me in real life you would understand that I will passionately defend and protect my child with every power available to me and then I would fight for access to more powers and decisions makers.

His physical health, mental state and emotional well-being is my absolute priority, and his safety and comfort is paramount. Do I ensure he is 100% happy 100% of the time and agree to his every demand for chocolate cake and unlimited tv? No. Because I am an excellent parent and my job is not to raise him with boundaries, to understand what is and what is not acceptable and thy is includes teaching him about other people's boundaries.

@GeorgiaGirl52 sadly I've seen only recently how faith schools are being targeted. I will DM you.

I think former teachers, whilst it's helpful to read about your experiences, it's clear things have moved on. Several posters who are teachers and teach in schools now have warned us, including the teacher in the OP. When a small group of people who are in the position of knowledge and are witness to something that warrants sharing it in the public domain, and share at their own personal risk and in fear, I'm going to believe them, at the very least, so to ask more questions. If we do not keep our minds open then we have learnt nothing from lessons from the past, I need not name them.

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OhHolyJesus · 17/01/2020 14:16

And now it's with the anti-trans labels to silence the questions about safeguarding.

Is this teacher being unreasonable?
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OhHolyJesus · 17/01/2020 14:19

A recent thread on whistle blowers.

Social Worker/Probation Officer Reported to Employers for Supporting JKR Tweet www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3781494-Social-Worker-Probation-Officer-Reported-to-Employers-for-Supporting-JKR-Tweet

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Siameasy · 17/01/2020 15:06

There’s the word youth again
SSA “want LGBT youth (cough school kids) to be alone and miserable” according to that chap.

There again he probably believes in the tooth fairy and Father Christmas going by his other tweets

traceyracer · 17/01/2020 15:20

Come on, it's 2020 not 1820, we can surely allow sex education now?

And I hate to break this to you, but a lot of girls/women also look at porn. Not just guys.

Lifeinthelastlane · 17/01/2020 15:37

Still illegal for kids trace whether it's 2020 or not.

karencantobe · 17/01/2020 15:41

Yes its illegal for kids to look at porn. But most 12-year olds have. Schools cannot pretend it does not exist.

karencantobe · 17/01/2020 15:43

And Warwickshire's advice should cover about age of consent. If it really does not, then that needs to be addressed.

But things like anal sex are not unusual amongst young people.

traceyracer · 17/01/2020 15:59

Yes but sex education is just learning about these things isn't it? I imagine they aren't exactly going to encourage or condone that the students go and do anything that would be illegal or harmful.

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 17/01/2020 16:01

karencantobe

Why are things like anal sex not unusual amongst young people? What changed?

karencantobe · 17/01/2020 16:10

Yes I know it is about porn. But kids have to be raised for the world we actually live in, not the one we want them to live in.

Copperleaves · 17/01/2020 16:11

That is one of the saddest things I've read in a while

PermanentlyFrizzyHairBall · 17/01/2020 16:13

Oh god. It's funny how hysterical you all get about transgender. Some people are transgender. People have sex change operations and identify as a different gender to their biological sex. You might not like it but your kids have a right to be taught about it because it's part of the world.

OhHolyJesus · 17/01/2020 16:13

Teaching it and encouraging it.

Where is the line drawn do you think
@traceyracer
@karencantobe

Teaching children that anal sex cannot result in pregnancy?

Teaching anal sex as a part of a healthy same sex relationship between men?

Going into detail about lubricant and position? About excrement, condoms and STIs/STDs?

Exhaling definitions such as rose budding?

If anyone isn't sure of the content of Warwickshire then I recommend reading the threads on it and the newspaper articles, seeing as the website has been deleted as it's "under review". It doesn't cover consent but don't take my word for it, do read up on what happened.

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PermanentlyFrizzyHairBall · 17/01/2020 16:15

Also yes kids look at porn and will do so before it's legal. They need to learn about it before they're exposed to it. They need to learn about sex long before they even think about doing it. The idea that ignorance somehow protects kids from engaging with porn, sex alcohol etc has long since been completely disproved. Kids will be exposed to it. Your choice is whether you choose to put what they're going to see in context or leave their education to their peers.

karencantobe · 17/01/2020 16:18

If Warwickshire guidance really is that bad, I am glad it is under review.

If you are going to do sex education these days, you do have to mention anal sex. So I would expect them to say that some gay men have anal sex, but not all do, that some straight couples have anal sex, but again not all. Safe anal sex. Not doing it if you don't want to.

Given that some pupils will be gay, not teaching safe anal sex is irresponsible. So yes I would expect them to mention lubricant and condoms.

OhHolyJesus · 17/01/2020 16:25

How would anal be covered in a mixed sex class for 11 year olds @karencantobe ?

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karencantobe · 17/01/2020 16:27

How do they cover penetrative sex between a woman and a man in a mixed class of 11 year olds?
Most schools introduce sex education content over a number of years to ensure it is age appropriate.

OhHolyJesus · 17/01/2020 16:29

The Respect Yourself programme covered anal and specifically rosebudding, the way it was presented didn't cover medically what it involves. It also didn't go into details about life expectancy for a porn star or what happens to your body if you have anal sex (rough or not).

11 year olds understand that primarily your anus is for poo. I'm interested as I really want to understand what posters here think 11 year olds should be taught in schools about this and how it should be presented and how much detail should go into it.

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OhHolyJesus · 17/01/2020 16:32

How would an 11 year old get to watch porn @PermanentlyFrizzyHairBall ?

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slipperywhensparticus · 17/01/2020 16:35

I honestly believe that porn should not be normalised it promotes the denigration of women and animals 🤮

SarahTancredi · 17/01/2020 16:49

I honestly believe that porn should not be normalised it promotes the denigration of women
Agreed. I mean the idea that we are supposed to believe a kid whos smart enough to figure out his brothers password , set up fake accounts or find obscure websites and spends hours watching a girl called cupcake angel 19 and discussing whether or not her boobs are fake in a 5 way video chat he set up, cant figure its not actually real...well that just doesnt add up really.

I think alot of this will just give already disturbed children more ideas about how to hurt or degrade their girlfriends/boyfriends.

What they need most is not explanations of words they can Google in 2 seconds flat or a chance to try and embarrass the teacher by asking about whatever fetish springs to mind, it's how to treat each other as human beings and as boyfriend and girlfriend /boyfriend and boyfriend etc and most importantly know that should they be shown anything to made to do or asked about anything that theres adults who will keep them safe, who will take actions against the person trying to hurt them. Action that isnt just another policy change that assumes kids are too stupid to understand right and wrong, but real action that will keep them safe and hopefully stop things escalating for the one who hurt them.

We are already getting men who walk out of court free having killed someone through "rough sex"

The idea our expectations of behaviour standards are so low a judge deems it possible a man had no idea it would kill their partner , well that's not helping is it.

Urkiddingright · 17/01/2020 16:53

Bestiality isn’t really necessary, I don’t think many people go around fucking animals. The rest of it honestly sounds fine to me and like any regular healthy discussion with secondary school students... They will hear about LGBT and everything between one way or another, I’d prefer it to be factually correct.

BoneyBackJefferson · 17/01/2020 16:59

GColdtimer
all the stories on the website are verified. You don't have to believe them. Do you think we have taken precious time away from our families and our jobs to fabricate a load of bullshit? Why would we do that? I suppose it's easier to think that we have "an agenda" than actually engage with the concerns so many people have about the safeguarding of our kids.

Kids Boundaries are being removed in plain sight.

Why the defensive diatribe?
I have said that I agree with some of the letter but frankly its tone is poor so why put out such a poorly written letter? And yes it pushes your agenda

I have many concerns surrounding the transition of young children, But if you wish to believe that I don't then that is your issue.

OhHolyJesus · 17/01/2020 17:02

I don't think many people go around fucking animals

There will be a darn sight more if it's taught as a sexual orientation.

I read something the other day about an Orangutan being rescued from the men who held her captive, shaved her every day and how when approached by a man she would "assume the position". The rescue team had to negotiate a price as this was a source of income for the 'owner'. I can't remember which country it was, not EU, obviously this is shocking and not directly related, but it serves as an example of the sheer depravity that is out there.

If an 11 year old is taught it as a sexual orientation, as part of a sex Ed discussion, without the words "and it's illegal" how would they then learn that is wasn't illegal?

Googling "sex with animals" is not going to help. I only hope the children in that lesson have a good relationship with their parents in order for that to be clarified PDQ.

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