Ex left toddler in hotel alone to go bar, so wrong?!

[Nothappy83]

Hi all, feeling really sad (and bit shocked) my ex let slip that during his access last weekend with our 3 year old son, that he left him in the hotel room alone (asleep) so that he, my ex, could go and join the lads for pints at the bar in the same hotel.

I really don't feel happy about this -- for one everyone knows any old staff have duplicate keys to hotel rooms, could've been abducted (unlikely but still) also could have woken up, he does wake up from time to time still, so could have been scared and or got hurt, any number of scenarios.

Ex says he was checking on him every ten mins -- I don't believe that, he doesn't draw breath for that long when having a drink with friends. Plus anything can happen in that time.

I just keep thinking of him alone in room & ex downstairs laughing & drinking & I feel so, so crushed.

I'm so confused as to why he would do this as he seems such a doting dad otherwise. Is well educated, from a lovely family, professional job etc.

Some background, I also caught him once nipping to the corner shop opposite our house when son was just a newborn (he had left him sleeping in Moses basket argued it was minutes). Also, on holidays with his friends there has been conflict as they all wanted to leave kids in tents etc whilst they drank in other area of campsite -- I disagreed and stayed back with ours.

He has also tried to blame my anxiety (pretty low) I pointed out it's against law (?) To leave kids who could be at risk, so not my anxiety at all.

I feel like I want to ban him from taking him away again as feel he's broken my trust 💔 plus with shop gate as newborn not the first time.

Do people think I'm overreacting, or is it just plain wrong?

Sorry for long post! Just can't get it off my mind.

p.s to the poster said about stopping contact isnt a good idea - i agree, this will go against you.

dont stop it, supervise it. get legal advice though asap, like today

It was normal 40 years ago, hotels used to advertise their baby listening services so parents could drink in the bar. Usually a baby monitor a member of staff had with them.

It is a parent's responsibility to ensure there is somebody around at all times to hear and take care of a child that cannot take care of themselves yet.it's more unlikely that they will get kidnapped than it is that the child would wake up and need something.if a child wakes up and there's nobody there who can hear them they could do a lot of dangerous things. Such as turn on a hot tap,touching a kettle touching electrics. Falling out of a window. Drinking chemicals. Not to mention I would feel absolutely awful knowing my child was crying for me and I couldn't hear them. I wouldn't be happy with this. Completely irresponsible

And 40 years ago having a child in a pram in a bar late at night would have been more frowned upon than using a baby listening service run by the hotel.

Alcohol is the most precious thing in his life by the sounds of it.
He should have left your son with you if he wanted to go drinking that weekend.
I would seek legal advice and see can you get family mediation regarding agreed arrangements for the access, to include agreements about drinking alcohol and leaving the child unsupervised.
No one can argue with that then, it'll be very black and white.
Your Ex clearly doesn't listen to you or respect your wishes or reasoning. He thinks he is a law unto his own right and he knows best. Therefore escalate this to a higher authority than him.

@Buttonsandroses some of those things may be a worry, but chemicals? If you are keeping chemicals in a hotel room that your child can reach then you are a neglectful parent. Kids can and do wake up in the night while their parent is asleep. It is also normal in hotel rooms catering for kids to have windows that cannot be opened by young kids. The real risk is a child waking up in a strange place and being upset.

@NeverTwerkNaked Sadly I know that. In the days when I was a legal secretary, one of the solicitors I worked for was on the Children's Panel. I also tear my hair out at this idea that a child will automatically benefit from having contact with their father. That really isn't true. My F was abusive.

So sorry @Lizzie0869

@karencantobe who said anything about "late at night"?

It was not normal as many posters have pointed out. The parents that left their kids then were neglectful, just as the parents that leave their kids now are neglectful.

This was normal 20 years ago as i used to do it.

The idea that this was normal 30-40 years ago conflicts with my own experience and those of families I knew, as a child in the 70s and 80s. All the families I knew used babysitters; the local babysitting circle was a big thing. There were a lot of camping or cottage holidays, where the family was together at night. When (rarely) staying in hotels, we did things during the day, then stayed in the room at night.

I remember vivdly the first time two of us were left alone in a hotel room in this sort of scenario. We were 8 and 9, knew the layout of the small hotel so where to find the adults in the bar below and indeed did so, as we found something fictitious to worry about.

When the M McC case happened, DP asked the PIL if they'd ever have done that - the answer was no, never.

It might have been common practice among a minority of people and those people will no doubt seek to normailse their choices. That's not the same thing as it being normal, which is itself not the same thing as it having been acceptable or safe.

Vulpine then you neglected your children. Horrific. Just 20 years ago? The millennium? Staff certainly weren't wandering round hotel corridors with baby monitors then

Madeleine McCann. It wasn't acceptable >20 years ago when mine were little and it's certainly not now.

I am saying it was common practice not because every parent did it, but because most hotels appealing to families, offered a listening service.

Obviously different in camping holidays where that was not offered.

Listening services were the 70s/80s equivalent of kids clubs in hotels. Not everyone leaves their kids in a kids club when going on holiday, and some will judge doing so negatively. But it is normal to leave your kids in a kids club.

My own parents in the 60s never used a listening service and judged those who did. But we stayed in hotels and resorts that had one, and plenty of parents used them.

It’s true choices are normalized. It doesn’t mean they were safe choices then or now. We are safer around children now, and that is a good thing.

And also, what is it to the OP if other people made unsafe choices? This is her child, and her instinct to protect is paramount. It’s a primal instinct, that is why animals don’t tend to leave their young alone.

I think trying to prevent their contact because you disagree with this would be well over the top and not in the interest of your child. (Did you stop letting him look after the newborn ever after he left him to pop over to the store?)

I mean, I agree with you that it's irresponsible and that his somewhat flippant reaction probably makes you worry even more. Could you try to see if you can agree on guidelines on what would be acceptable? Agree the focus needs to be on accidents and child escaping or panicking, not on the incredibly likely abduction scenario.

No, there were kids clubs in the 70s and 80s. Listening services were offered in some just like babysitting services are still offered in some.

The baby in this situation wasn't left with a listener or a babysitter. People are claiming that what the OPs ex did used to be the norm. It wasn't, unless you were a selfish neglectful bastard.

Listening services were the 70s/80s equivalent of kids clubs in hotels. Kids clubs are run by police vetted care minders. And even then, the knowledge of fire safety and toddler safety were less evolved than they are now.

The point is that OP should not try and deny access and should not take actions that are seen as trying to deny access. Access is very unlikely to be denied on this basis. But seeing as trying to obstruct access can be used against you in future.

What is better is to talk to your ex, and talk to other adults who have an influence over him. This may be his parents or current partner. Don't talk about unlikely scenarios such as DC being kidnapped from the hotel room. Talk about how if your child woke up in a strange room alone they would have been upset.

@zezet but a parent should never have to compromise their child’s basic safety needs for anyone! Why should they?

If a childminder did that they would be sacked and never allowed to work again. Why are parents (dads) given more Leniency?

@WildChristmas I know. I worked in kids provision before kids provision was regulated in the the early 90s's. And in some cases your child would have been safer alone in a hotel room, than in an unregulated kids club.

The point is that OP should not try and deny access and should not take actions that are seen as trying to deny access. Access is very unlikely to be denied on this basis. But seeing as trying to obstruct access can be used against you in future.

I disagree. Would you let a child go to a parent who wasn’t getting the child to wear a seatbelt? Or in the house alone? Social services only see the child’s safety, not concerned about access or rights of the parents. Where is the line?

@karencantobe what has listening services in the 80s got to do with the op and access? I really don't get how that is your point.

"talk to other adults who have an influence over him. This may be his parents or current partner." OP has spoken to his mother, although I disagree with this in many cases. Especially if they have the view that this used to be the norm, like you. It's clearly clouding your judgement so hopefully you aren't speaking from a professional safeguarding viewpoint.

Kids' clubs involve a number of responsible adults being present in the same room as and actively supervising the children.

What on earth does that have to do with a hotel receptionist listening to a phone from time to time?

@WildChristmas Paid childcarers always have to meet higher standards than their own parents. Just think about it logically. Parents can smoke in the house with their kids in the same room, childcarers cannot. Parents smoke dope or take drugs with their kids in the same room, won't get them taken into care., Childcarers cannot.
The situation has to be dire to be denied access at all by a court. That is why those men who claim they were denied access by a court to their child on the basis of some tiny made up allegation by the mother, are always lying.