Ex left toddler in hotel alone to go bar, so wrong?!

[Nothappy83]

Hi all, feeling really sad (and bit shocked) my ex let slip that during his access last weekend with our 3 year old son, that he left him in the hotel room alone (asleep) so that he, my ex, could go and join the lads for pints at the bar in the same hotel.

I really don't feel happy about this -- for one everyone knows any old staff have duplicate keys to hotel rooms, could've been abducted (unlikely but still) also could have woken up, he does wake up from time to time still, so could have been scared and or got hurt, any number of scenarios.

Ex says he was checking on him every ten mins -- I don't believe that, he doesn't draw breath for that long when having a drink with friends. Plus anything can happen in that time.

I just keep thinking of him alone in room & ex downstairs laughing & drinking & I feel so, so crushed.

I'm so confused as to why he would do this as he seems such a doting dad otherwise. Is well educated, from a lovely family, professional job etc.

Some background, I also caught him once nipping to the corner shop opposite our house when son was just a newborn (he had left him sleeping in Moses basket argued it was minutes). Also, on holidays with his friends there has been conflict as they all wanted to leave kids in tents etc whilst they drank in other area of campsite -- I disagreed and stayed back with ours.

He has also tried to blame my anxiety (pretty low) I pointed out it's against law (?) To leave kids who could be at risk, so not my anxiety at all.

I feel like I want to ban him from taking him away again as feel he's broken my trust 💔 plus with shop gate as newborn not the first time.

Do people think I'm overreacting, or is it just plain wrong?

Sorry for long post! Just can't get it off my mind.

Awful. I realise the risk of abduction is really low but to risk your 3 year waking up alone in a strange place is unacceptable. I wouldn’t even leave my 8 year old in those circumstances as I know he would be frightened and disoriented let alone a 3 year old!

People saying this was normal 15 years ago are wrong. I am 30 and my parents never left me alone in a hotel room.
My mum was born mid 60s however and her parents did this to her and she hated it, was scared and lonely!

OP from your responses earlier I can see your conflicted because he is an otherwise good dad. But condoning his behaviour isnt good. He made his choice and it was to leave your little one in potential danger. I dont necessarily mean abduction but hurt/harm is likely.

I do agree get a family solicitor advice but I would also explain to him how you feel and that you are seeking advice.

*15 years ago this was pretty acceptable.
*

No, no, it really wasn't.

RoyaleMum

Im 30 too, I was never left alone in a hotel room.

Don't let people on here rile you up too much. It's a minor misdemeanour. You will come out with a very unbalanced view of the situation if you think the mob voice on here is the voice of reason.

Certainly don't deny your son a proper relationship with his father over this. Dial it down.

Also there's a big difference between leaving a child e.g. in their bedroom upstairs in your own home which is a familiar environment to the child and its layout is such that it makes it as safe as possible to the child (in that you've probably avoided items that might create risk when furnishing it). Hotel rooms aren't necessarily planned in the same way, you don't know the layout, furnishings or quality of the fittings and cannot predict what your child might do with them when left alone. This in itself creates an additional risk of harm. Plus him drinking at the same time, I mean, really? Who in their right mind thinks this is a good combination?

I this is not on too. Not so much being abducted that must be pretty rare ( although not impossible) I would be concerned if he woke up and was alone and scared.

Eh I have a 16yr old and 24yr old and it wasn't normal to leave them alone in hotel rooms or campsites when they were young. Never met anyone who did such a thing

And all for the sake of a couple of pints with his mates. No.

This is not acceptable. I don’t know how he could relax doing that. YANBU.

A child waking alone in a strange place is likely to be terrified, could easily open door and go running down corridor seeking parent - and anything could happen. I once knocked on a neighbours door one night when I could hear children screaming and found 4 tiny children alone in the flat, absolutely terrified. It was heart rending, I reported to SS. The parents returned shortly afterwards claiming someone had been looking in on them. No decent parent should ever subject their child to this.

We used to do it (pre Madeleine McCann) but had a baby monitor plugged in next to us in the hotel bar/restaurant so we would hear if DC woke up. Nowadays with WiFi freely available I might consider doing it if there were some way I could have a webcam type set up so I had eyes on the sleeping child the whole night.

I agree you need to take legal advice on this OP.

@NeverTwerkNaked, very, very true. Courts, specifically Cafcass, support parents contact with children unless the risk is very, very high. They work on the basis that each parent is responsible and has risk assessed the situation. If this went to court the dad would not have access stopped on the basis of this incident.

OP, practically is there anything you can do whilst your son is so young? Pressure from his mum might help also if Ex is socialising can you suggest childcare? I know it makes you responsible but might allay your concerns.

I would however write to your email stating the risks..he is likely to make the behaviour go underground however but if it becomes a pattern you will have an audit trail. Also as your son gets older he will be able to express his views to his dad. I know it's not the solution but you can't make a selfish person change.

I'm 39 and when we used to holiday at a guest house in the mid 80s my parents sat in the bar for a bit after we had gone to bed (didn't get drunk) I remember waking up and creeping down the stairs crying as I wanted my mum and dad.This was at 7 or 8 years old and I was still scared,never mind a toddler.

I'm 30 and I vividly remember my parents sitting on the apartment balcony or in the living room every night when we were on holiday. They never left us alone. There is no way I would even consider this! I still feel awful if I have to pop out to the car or into the garden for a moment when DS is asleep in the house!

I wouldn’t have done that in a hotel, a child that age can get into all sorts if they wake or just wake and be terrified at being left alone.

• Except he hasn't as the law is so vague as to be useless unless something actually happens. The NSPCC guidelines are not law.

Which isn't to say he hasn't been a twat.*

I work in the courts quite frequently (not a lawyer). I have seen more than one parent prosecuted for leaving children alone or being drunk in charge of them. It's an offence to leave them alone if it puts them at risk of harm. However I admit I only see cases brought under Scots law and most cases probably just get a talking to rather than prosecuted.

Your DC may love his Daddy and want to go to his but this is where you step up and parent that child! One of you has to do the right thing and it isn't going to be your ex.
Tell him to arrange to have supervised access or none and then just go with the flow. If he challenges this, you have plenty of evidence and reasons. If he takes you to court, go. Don't be afraid of court. You can explain why you have done what you have done and he will be denied direct access.

Don't be influenced by the fact your son wants to go to his father's. That's not his decision. It's the decision of the intelligent parent and that is you.

Wow TartanMarbled, you must set the bar for good parenting pretty low, if you think this is acceptable.

My eldest dd is 15. No way would we ever have done this. My smaller dd was born as Madeleine went missing, so that obviously highlighted the dangers. It is possible that Madeleine woke up and wondered off isn’t it ? That is more of a risk than an abduction, but also I would worry about a fire, or a child waking and needing to vomit, choking etc. All unlikely, but possible.
Oh and I was born in the 1960s and my parents didn’t do this with us either, although I know it was relatively common in the 70s and 80s with some families, particularly the use of a listening service.

He needs the riot act reading to him.

What if there was a fire? Or even just a fire drill?

Does he go to the same hotel?

It's good you are on good terms with his mum, talk to her about this, she will know him well.

A parent is not allowed to insist on supervised access, that has to be decided by a court.

Decline all access.
Get him to take you to court for access and when he does, you apply for supervised contact.
It may seem harsh but it's not as harsh as a father who has put his son at risk of ending up in a cold grave. I've got stories. They're not for here. But honestly OP, this is bad parenting. Very bad parenting. Getting bladdered with the lads AND leaving your DC alone in a strange place? My goodness, OP, your worries don't need validation, believe me. You need to be tough here though and not feel guilty for relinquishing contact. Your DC's welfare is paramount.

30 years ago, my parents would regularly leave me unsupervised in our hotel room in Tangiers. They'd go downstairs into the bar to have "one or two" drinks with their friends... and would only discover that I'd gone missing whenever they stumbled back upstairs for another noon nap. Okay, I was 10 at the time and not a toddler, but when I'd wake up to find myself alone, or my parents didn't return within the few minutes they'd tell me they'd "only be away for"... I took full advantage to the point where the (poor) hotel manager had to place security on the main door in an effort to stop my escaping. I'd wander off up the main street and into the Bazaar, find my favourite shop and be fussed over by the grandfatherly keeper and his wife for the rest of the afternoon. I was very fortunate in that nothing bad/terrible happened to me during that time - it's only with the 20/20 hindsight of age and becoming a parent myself, that I've realised it very easily could have. My parents were negligent beyond belief because I - a non-swimmer who loved water - might just as easily have decided to take myself off into the pool, rather than out into the streets of colour, and bustle, and noise. 30 years ago, they simply had a telling off from the hotel's manager when they complained that his staff couldn't keep tabs on me (the security guards felt sorry for me and would let me "sneak" past them on condition that they watched me go up the street and I'd be back in an hour or two, after a few days of me literally sneaking past them without them seeing me), but today?

I'd probably have ended up in the Embassy's care and then in actual foster care back in the UK.

The thought of either of my children doing what I did back in 1986, fills me with absolute dread, to the point where when my ex and I split, knowing that he can be very "relaxed" when it comes to our son's welfare, he had supervised visits until my son was old enough to speak and use a 'phone to call me. To the best of my knowledge, my ex hasn't ever left him alone anywhere - but I know how frightened my son would have been at the same age as yours, OP, if he'd woken in a hotel room to find that his Dad had gone "missing".

Your ex has no idea as to the resourcefulness of a worried toddler, else he'd never have left him by himself. My children would have taken on the responsibility of letting themselves out of the room and finding me, if I'd behaved like your ex - and that could have led to all sorts of horrible things. Has your ex never read about the toddlers found wandering the streets in the middle of the night, dressed only in their pyjamas, and terrified because they can't find a parent? Or how Maddie McCann was/is not the only young child who has vanished completely? Ask him how he'd feel if his child went missing because he was having a few drinks "with the lads" and then, 13... 20... 40 years later, there's still no sign of them? There was a news report only last week about Cheryl Grimmer's disappearance 50 years ago; half a century's gone by and her three brothers still don't know where she is or what happened to her. It's too late for her parents to know where she is, if she was murdered, or sold on, because they both died a few years back - but can your ex not empathise with these cases? With the fact that he's behaving in a manner which might lead to your child becoming a statistic? A warning to other parents not to leave their babies alone?

Presumably he had a say in whether or not you became parents, so presumably he owes it to your child to behave like a parent and keep them safe from all sorts of harm - including all the nasties which can occur when a toddler is left alone in a hotel room, sleeping - or not!!!