Is using disabled toilets to avoid awkward interactions in gendered toilets U?

[Crazyoldmaurice]

Yanbu - no
Yabu - yes

Just seen something online where someone who is 'non binary' has said they have bought a radar key so they can use disabled toilets to avoid awkward interactions and dont feel safe in using either the ladies or gents toilets. Whats the stance on this?

I personally feel that disabled and accessible toilets are there for those who need them due to accessibility reasons only and shouldn't be used by anyone else. I can equally see how using the gents might not feel safe but feel like the awkwardness of using the ladies should be endured considering how awkward someone needing the disabled toilets might feel if they didnt make it in time due to an orherwise able bodied person using their toilet.

Thoughts?

I do think it's unreasonable, but the disabled loos are usually the baby change as well. So you can't say they are exclusively for the disabled. So they're kinda not doing anything wrong.

As someone who uses the disabled toilet (I am allowed ) I wouldn’t mind as I still have the ability to wait my turn. As long as people aren’t taking the piss it’s fine, I can’t see them being many ‘non binary’ ‘transgender’ people using the toilets anyway.

I totally agree with a PP who said this country is going backwards in terms of support for disabled people who NEED to use these toilets.
I'm physically disabled, got my BB, claim PIP and ESA etc etc. The disabled 'community' fought bloody hard for years to have facilities we could actually use but in recent years it seems we aren't the trendy new group and bit by bit I honestly feel our needs are being pushed aside for the wants of others.
It's depressing.
I'm not fussed what you've got between your legs, but unless you have an actual NEED to use the accessible toilets, please leave them for those of us that need the space /have a lack of bladder or bowel control etc etc x

It's just going to cause more aggro if apparently non-disabled people are using disabled facilities. Its going to make it harder for people with real disabilities but not obvious ones, to access facilities. I don't think that Radar keys should be sold freely for this reason.

As a disabled person, it pisses me off! Radar keys need to stop being so openly available for people like this, I’ve had a few issues before where I haven’t managed to get to the toilet in time (which is hard when you have chrons!) because of people who clearly aren’t disabled using them. It’s like a disabled car parking spot really, if you don’t need to use it then don’t!

Accessible toilets are technically available to everyone. They are accessible to those who cannot use ordinary toilets for whatever reason. I couldn’t get worked up about this.

There's plenty of people on here who don't feel safe with transwomen in the Ladies and men wouldn't feel comfortable with someone who looks like a woman in the Mens, so maybe these people are actually being considerate of others feelings.

There is an argument that being "non binary" is a mental health issue so maybe they can argue it's a disability?

I don't want to get into a trans debate here, but although I think the vast majority of so-called trans people should get mental health help rather than going down the road of switching gender, I am also mindful of the fact we said that about gay people not that long ago.

But if you do argue they have a mental health problem, it could be classed as being bad enough to be a disability.

You’re disabled under the Equality Act 2010 if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities.

I would argue a condition that leads you - rightly or wrongly - to feel panicked using a toilet designed for either your biological sex or your identifying sex fits that definition. And I think people should be kinder to those with this particular difficulty, because there but for the grace of God.

Toilets should all be unisex with closed cubicles and a seperate urinal room. That's what they're like up here in Norwayland (mostly) and it works very well. Nobody feels unsafe, nobody feels they have to use a toilet that doesn't fit their identity, everybody is happy.

Pressed the wrong one! Sorry. YABU. Last time I heard non-binary or any other of these silly made-up sexualities are not a disability.

i am always a bit hmm at these threads. where is the link OP?
a made up gender is not a disability and that person should not just use the disabled toilets for their convenience. they are already abused and the list of "what ifs" (as in people with prams and such like) are making life harder for disabled people.
if people like the one in the op want special toilets they should campaign for them, rather than pretending they have a disability.
we really need something better than a key that anyone can buy.

if people like the one in the op want special toilets they should campaign for them, rather than pretending they have a disability.

I don’t understand what makes you believe they are pretending to have a disability.

they are already abused and the list of "what ifs" (as in people with prams and such like) are making life harder for disabled people. surely people with prams with small babies should be allowed access to these toilets without judgement though? They can’t exactly ditch the baby outside the toilet whilst they go do their business.

Very unreasonable, but I noticed, at the Southbank Centre, the disabled toilet is now also designated non-binary.

surely people with prams with small babies should be allowed access to these toilets without judgement though? They can’t exactly ditch the baby outside the toilet whilst they go do their business.

They have access to them. Unfortunately not without the judgement...

So much shitty judgement.

If someone is virtually incontinent, they have to rely on noone else using the disabled facilities! Including others disabled bodies and minds!

Expecting ny toilets to be devoid of other users is frankly unrealistic.

All the while others use the toilets there will be times one has to wait.

Its false to say that disabled users don't have to ever wait when its restricted to only disabled users!!

Utter nonsense and no argument atall.

Disabled users take longer generally, as that is part of their routine, it just takes longer, so queues are more likely.

All that I hear is that everyone wants penises in the facilities designed for penis, and likewise for vulva.

Noone whos of one sex has rights to enter the opposite sex facility.

I fail to see why they would make up a 'right' to access the opposite sex facility illegally and intrude on others sex based privacy and dignity.

It says a lot about anyone that would do this.

Why would I go into a male facility? I wouldn't. End of. Men don't want women in their toilets (unless theyre a bit suspect ) and women don't want men in theirs.

They just want privacy and to take advanatge of the protection that a single sex facility offers.

Well according to MN they shouldn't be using the toilet almost anywhere. If people saw someone who looked like a man in the female toilet people would be rushing to start a thread about how uncomfortable they were (think of the children). Likewise if they haven't got the right genitals they can't use the women's toilets.

Surely people wouldn't be rushing to start a thread but more like reporting contraventions of single sex facilities that have existed for years for the protection of women and children.

Noone really wants to make light of this.

@TruthOnTrial @JanMeyer if we could upvote posts on MN I'd definitely be upvoting both your posts. Very well said.

Surely people wouldn't be rushing to start a thread but more like reporting contraventions of single sex facilities that have existed for years for the protection of women and children.

Well people on MN don't want people who present as women but were born men to use the women's toilets - presumably that means that female to male transgendered people can't use the male toilet so will have to use female toilets despite presenting as men. (If someone looks like a man you'll have no way of telling what's in their pants). That leaves them with nowhere to use the toilet.

@JanMeyer

YOu're a horrible person. A seriously nasty nasty person. Also ignorant.You're also a perfect example of the biggotted idiocy which makes it necessary for transgendered people to need protection.

They should absolutely NOT be using the disabled toilet. That is for people who are disabled, not for able bodied people who merely feel "uncomfortable" in a certain toilet.

Oh god this is what's MN comes to. It's not entirely clear what causes someone to have issues with their gender but it is absolutely not attention seeking . Transgendered people are at massive risk of abuse, murder, violent assault, suicide. And some horrible posters (probably the same people who feel women need huge amount of protection when using the bathroom) feel free to make nasty, abusive comments towards them.