catcalled and groped every time I go out

[DuploTower]

Aibu reasonable to be suspicious of women who claim to be catcalled and groped every time they go out?

Or am I just too old and unattractive to know what that's like and that it does happen.

I'm certainly not saying it never happens. And if someone finds it uncomfortable or intimidating it's not OK.

But every time you go out?

Is it a bit of a stealth brag?

They must be exaggerating.

Aibu?

It happens all the time in city centre clubs and the busier bars. I won't go out in town because of this, I hate to even see it happening to anyone else. The environment is intimidating and not a nice night out.

There's a few clubs I go to that are out of the way, expensive for men to get in to, but cheaper for women, and men get barred if they behave disrespectfully. They certainly cannot get away with groping. Much better night out and my go to choice!

Imagine if this was low-level racist abuse at the same rate.

I wish it was considered more serious by society in general.

Had it from around 12-24 ish, mainly whilst walking home/standing at bus stops.
Bum felt on the bus at around 18, I completely froze, groped in a club at around 17, whilst stood with my boyfriend of the time and wanked at on a beach at 24.
Around 12 on a family holiday to Tunisia, I was stared at and followed everywhere..12 years old ffs..I remember feeling uncomfortable at the time, but it’s only when looking back I see how very wrong it was.
Doesn’t tend to happen much these days, at 41, although strangely I’ve noticed since I had my baby girl and push her in the buggy, I sometimes get men looking out of vans..but didn’t in my 30’s when walking my dog alone etc.
Disturbingly, the largest bulk of attention was aged 12-17.

Yes, happened to me a lot. When I was 16 and walking to the local shop, a man stopped his car and literally started to try to kiss me. Fucking creep.

I absolutely hated it. It carried on for years, in alpha male-dominated work environments, basically until I started to have children, got a pram, and promptly became invisible to the male gaze. Just like magic.

I much, much prefer being this age, looking older, a little bit rounder, not young and beautiful anymore, but much, much happier.

Yep, still get catcalled and have had some sort of unwanted attention from men pretty much daily since I was about 14, I'm 45 now. Now I get coor look at that MILF, etc. Can't say I feel particularly flattered especially since I don't have any kids

I aim the most withering look their way and they tend to shut up, there is a lot to be said for being a slightly scary middle-aged woman !

God, this thread is depressing.

Where does she "go out". I can certainly believe it if she means pubs & clubs or cramped public transport, or maybe even a busy shopping mall.

But I'd find it strange if it happened to her on a country walk, or going to the end of the street to the local convenience store, or taking the family dog for a walk etc.

Just speaking from my own experience, it was always in crowded places. In pubs/clubs it was the "chancers" who tried it on with anything with boobs. In shops/trains etc it was the socially inadequate weirdos getting a cheap thrill.

It's a bit of a seasonal thing. I don't get harrassed Oct-March.

I had a flatmate who would mention whenever she got catcalled, very much in a boastful way. She was blonde and size 8, and frequently mentioned that this basically made her a goddess. Without being harsh, she was kind of ordinary, and meeting her stunning sister certainly explained where that insecurity came from!

Thing was, the other two of us (brunette and size 12-14), were getting a lot more catcalling, certainly at least on a weekly basis (insecure friend maybe once a month?), but just glossed over it as an irritation.

I used to get catcalled or followed or flashed at practically every time I went out when I was a student and living in London. Made no difference what I wore.

The catcalling stopped as I got older, but the flashing never did.

I was once flashed at while pushing my baby in the pram, and it still happens occasionally, although I'm really ancient and nothing to look out. It's a power thing.

These girls are so fed up with street harrassment that they've started a petition to change the law in the UK:

www.change.org/p/make-street-harassment-illegal-in-the-uk/u/24873744

The type of man who catcalls is the type of man whose hatred of women is never very far from the surface, because it's a form of misogynistic control - trying to remind women that they believe the public sphere is owned and controlled by men.

Yes, @PracticallyFamous. & I wonder about the mentality of women who minimise it, or doubt that it happens, or who diminish womens' genuine distaste of & objections to it by claiming that as it doesn't happen every time that women are somehow embroidering unwelcome male attention to their own advantage.

Loki2020 Thanks for the answer! I've lived in the midlands too and that's where I've experienced the harassment.

When I last saw my dentist, this topic was being covered on the radio. The dentist and assistant agreed that it was an awful problem they too experienced. They were average looking women. I was shocked as I'm attractive and never had a problem. But it must be where they go e.g. clubbing, concerts (which they said it happened alot for them) etc. I dont really go out much, I like quiet places instead.

What do other men, walking past, think of it I wonder? The type who wouldn't do it themselves.

Do they think the women like it? (have they never spoken to an actual woman about it!) Do they think it's the catcaller's perfect right to do it even if the woman doesn't like it? Do they think "that's a bit off but I cba getting involved"? Do they think "that's bad but if I say anything I might get punched"?

Anyone know?

In the Midlands as a pretty teenager (tho sure I was ugly) & up to 35 I got catcalls quite often but they felt friendlier, mostly a quick 'hello gorgeous' & that was that . Once in London, at 36-46 pretty much every time I went out & horribly sexual comments that carried on for a good couple of minutes & it felt intimidating. Now I'm old & 50, next doors 16yr old gets similar stuff from guys 25+ when she's out with me, but is insanely confident & sees it as attention, any kind of which, she loves. I try to tell her not to encourage guys who've followed us for over a mile because she smiled, slowed down & looked back.

I used to get cat called when I was 14+ to about 25. I used to be groped when I went clubbing. Now I’m an oldie, not so much so, I wouldn’t stand for it, the dickheads that do it obviously target younger girls for that reason.

However, I went on a weekend away with a very attractive women. She is about 21 and like the fake look, so massive lips and massive boobs. She’s gorgeous, it’s her choice. But the amount of cat calling she got, grotesque comments, and this was in the day. Out at night it was much much worse, I actually felt scared for her. She laughed it off as I did when younger. She didn’t like the attention as she’s not interested in men. But to be honest, she’s safer laughing it off, of she confronted every
Man that did it she would be in constant arguments and I’m sure some of them would turn nasty and she’s a tiny little thing.

I was so shocked it’s as prevalent, if not worse than when I was on my 20’s.

Count yourself lucky you dont understand it then. It's not bragging its fact. I'm 26 and can't count the number of times it has happened. I'm no supermodel, but I'm petite and some men think they can intimidate me by using their presence. Pushing up against me when in a crowded place, yes sometimes even having a grope especially when I used to go clubbing before DC. The cat calling still exists and I hate people who minimise it. Maybe people don't realise (or care) how intimidating it can be walking past 10 builders who are staring at you and if you dont dare smile you're a miserable cow who needs to cheer up and if you do smile just to play a long and not to upset the man, they think you're up for it.

This subject really winds me up, I watch my 13yo sister and her friends get eyed up by dirty old men, yes every single day. It took me ages to not tolerate this shite, and still women/young girls can feel intimidated and not say anything, so they dont need deniers like you questioning whether sexual assault or harassment really happens that frequently.

There were paragraphs in my post

I got this a lot in my 20s, and it is the main reason why that particular decade is the main one I have no desire to relive. Now 60+ and no longer having to deal with this crap is incredibly liberating. From what I have been hearing it doesn't seem to have got much better for younger women. My heart goes out to all of you/them.

This happened to me a lot when in my 20's & 30's & living in London. A lot!

Memorable incidents include being harrassed by curb crawler when I was waiting for a bus. How dare a women want to catch a fucking bus!! And the several times I was followed for quite some time by men - and then harrassed for not responding favourable to their "advances".

And yes regular cat calling, bum grabbing, smily love, show us your tits etc.

Its horrible & nothing to "stealth brag" about.

This is just going to keep happening down the generations unless something changes. It can't be impossible - attitudes on drink-driving, and smoking indoors have changed dramatically, attitudes to minorities too, and recycling etc. Wtf will it take?!

I've been helped by creeps before, and helped by normal nice people, if your intentions are good then what exactly is there to worry about? Well you'd have to ask him, he obviously felt uncomfortable about it.

thing is even if it doesnt happen LITERALLY every time you leave the house, the pattern of behaviors means once it starts to happen regularly, you are soon then expecting to have it happen every time you leave the house - so the stress levels are up if it happens that day or not.

Some years ago, on a very hot day, I was pushing a twin-pushchair up a steep hill. Looked dreadful, sweating, shabby, laddered tights, hair needing a wash - the lot. From behind me came a long drawn-out appreciative wolf-whistle. I ignored it. It came again - and I couldn't resist turning round to see could be mad enough to fancy me. In a garden was a parrot - who whistled again!

Both boys in the pushchair kept asking "why are you laughing so much"

What a weird post. I've never seen anyone here claim to be catcalled and groped every time they leave the house. This is Britain, where we have laws against that kind of thing. And i don't think anyone would claim there's a correlation between attractiveness and harassment. Maybe between looking vulnerable and harassment.

@DuploTower

ODFOD.