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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be permanently skint, despite being on a good salary?

913 replies

cherriesandapplesandberries · 12/01/2020 08:14

On paper, we have a good combined income of around £85,000, although it varies slightly and can even go up to around 90 on a good year.

But we seem to be permanently skint, and I don’t mean not much money, I mean absolutely nothing in the bank accounts, scrabbling round for loose change, stressing about how we will get to work, skint. This isn’t a begging thread by the way, I know sometimes people post on MN wanting others to offer them money and I don’t, I’m just trying to explain how it is.

We do have debts, loans and credit cards plus obviously the mortgage, childcare fees, cars which cost then obviously the needs of a growing family.

I know back when I was a young ‘un I’d have fallen about laughing at the idea my current salary isn’t enough to live on, but I just seem to be struggling all of the time!

OP posts:
saraclara · 14/01/2020 08:41

Meanwhile, Jeeeze, there are a lot of people in this thread that I'd never share a confidence with.
OP posts, deletes, and says the post gave information that she didn't want out there. Easily a dozen people continue to refer to and identify that information.

Mrsmadevans · 14/01/2020 08:57

20k after tax & NI is 1427 a month with zero pension contributions.

Precisely my point thank you for working it out 😄

Mrsmadevans · 14/01/2020 08:58

Meanwhile, Jeeeze, there are a lot of people in this thread that I'd never share a confidence with.
OP posts, deletes, and says the post gave information that she didn't want out there. Easily a dozen people continue to refer to and identify that information

She can ask for this thread to be taken down. Her choice.

Rastamousehat · 14/01/2020 09:05

35k after tax would be around 2.2k a month. That's before pension or student loan deductions.

Would that add up to £500 though ? (I'm genuinely curious) as I said previously my take home pay (after tax, NI and admittedly minimum pension contribution) is 1700 and I earn 9k less as gross salary.

Lweji · 14/01/2020 09:12

Why would anyone want to cut back on hobbies @ willothewispa. I mean literally what’s the point if you can’t have some enjoyment

There's no enjoyment in stressing about finances either.
You can find cheaper hobbies or do your hobbies more cheaply.

BarbaraofSeville · 14/01/2020 09:13

Probably not. That's one reason why the OP has been given a hard time on this thread.

For the gross/net numbers to add up, they would both have had to be making student loan payments and paying about 20% of their gross salaries into their pensions, which is unlikely to be the basic minimum. Most contribution levels are around 3-10% and it probably doesn't make sense to maximise pension contributions during the time when childcare costs are taking up so much of your income.

Mrsmadevans · 14/01/2020 09:39

Oops sorry DD salary is 1350 with everything out on 20k

Rastamousehat · 14/01/2020 09:50

Hobbies can vary wildly on how expensive they are. If your finances were squeezed why wouldnt you assess whether there were any savings that could be made.

karencantobe · 14/01/2020 10:10

I play sport once a week and go to a pub quiz. Costs me £10 per week. Some hobbies are expensive some cheap. You have to cut your cloth.

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 14/01/2020 10:44

The thing is, for those of us on a low income and DC that have a hobby that they are very talented at/do at a high level, you want to give them the best chance possible - it's not just an enjoyable extra, it's a chance of them possibly being able to do it as a career or compete as a professional/amateur etc (as well as being very enjoyable of course!)

But this entails the cost of getting to training, working around training, equipment, going to competitions etc etc. On a low income it's a huge percentage of your budget and there really isn't much to cut!

Thinking of that and then reading about people massively struggling and going without food for £250 to do a DCs party for the whole class, whilst resenting it, I do think that's one of the most fucking stupid things I've read, tbh.

The £1000 a teen is different, to me it's a massive and totally unachievable amount, but I can see how, if you had a very high income, you'd want to give your DC the best upbringing you could. I could easily spend that on my teens Grin

(Btw I don't think OP is coming back, par for the course for goady threads like this. Like to be proved wrong though!)

karencantobe · 14/01/2020 10:56

I could spend a massive amounts on my teens if I had it. They could happily spend a fortune on clothes and electronics alone.

Bearbehind · 14/01/2020 11:00

For those querying the OP’s DH’s take home pay - there’s no point.

I think the OP contradicted every figure she did post later on in the thread and refused to post about her housing costs so it’s never going to add up

The bottom line is they have high outgoings, largely due to a high level of debt and childcare cost so things are going to be tough until those costs have ended

I’m sure there are savings to be made, not least by checking what the actual income and outgoings are, but the OP doesn’t want to hear that.

Most people who genuinely wanted to not be so skint would start there.

Bearbehind · 14/01/2020 11:04

Jeeeze, there are a lot of people in this thread that I'd never share a confidence with. OP posts, deletes, and says the post gave information that she didn't want out there. Easily a dozen people continue to refer to and identify that information.

And pages later you bring it up again which only serves to make those who didn’t read it, check back 🤔

Lweji · 14/01/2020 11:15

The thing is, for those of us on a low income and DC that have a hobby that they are very talented at/do at a high level, you want to give them the best chance possible - it's not just an enjoyable extra, it's a chance of them possibly being able to do it as a career or compete as a professional/amateur etc (as well as being very enjoyable of course!)

Yes, that's more like training, or education, or even investment, not just "enjoying life".

It's about making choices.

doobiev · 14/01/2020 12:44

Was the DH a teacher or is that the OP?

If so he could be paying 10%. Many companies set the % at a certain rate, I pay 9% and there is no option to reduce it. DH pays 10%.

10% of 2200 is 220 leaving 1980, he could easily have a student loan (can't remember what that payment should be) & maybe a season ticket etc.

doobiev · 14/01/2020 12:47

I thought it was prudent to be saving 10% of your income into pension & ideally your company matches that. Probably still not enough though!

EntropyRising · 14/01/2020 16:06

Teenagers are indeed very expensive.

They eat a lot, they go out a lot, their hobbies can be fairly expensive (guitar, rugby, tennis, whatever), they wear adult clothes. It costs something like £70 for my 17 year old to get to and from school on the tube every month. If they have acne, you'll want to get it sorted, they might need orthodontia, they cost no less than an adult to travel with, and so on.

I think £1,000 is an overstatement, but not a million miles off.

karencantobe · 14/01/2020 16:56

Expensive hobbies are a choice. Acne treatment is available on the NHS as is dentistry.
Of course you can spend a £1k a teenager. £2k for 2 teenagers which we have, would mean not enough left to pay our essential bills. We have about £3.2k a month. I don't know what the 2 teenagers actually cost us, but they could cost a lot more if we had more money.

Drabarni · 14/01/2020 17:43

Expensive hobbies are a choice

They are also an investment and something you need to keep if you possibly can.
We are a low income family and had a child with a very expensive hobby.
Turned out to be very talented and will make a living out of it.
Plenty of times we could have stopped, but we prioritised.
Even with little money you have choices what to prioritise.
Had it not been this then I'm sure we'd have found something else.

lljkk · 14/01/2020 18:26

Until very recently I had THREE teenagers at home. I did not spend £36k on them per year. It didn't happen.

doobiev · 14/01/2020 18:31

Surely if your spending 1k on a teen a month you setting a high bar in terms of disposable income they will be used too.

WombatChocolate · 14/01/2020 18:43

Necessities are things you cannot live without. Everything else is a luxury to one degree or another and having those things is a choice.

So, food and shelter and clothing and basic bills are necessitates. Some people don't have enough money monthly to pay for these. Msometimes that's because their income is simply insuffiencient to cover them. Other times they have insufficient money because they have spent some of their money on non-esssentials.

When people become better off, their idea of what is essential can change. It starts to include things which actually aren't essential - they might be desirable but they aren't essential and are actually a choice and a choice which can be economised on or even cut out fully if needed. The squeezed middle often struggle so I see these things as luxuries and choices because they are so much the norm in their social circles and possibly background.

Examples might include

  • expensive extra curricular activities
  • private school fees
  • expensive private orthodontic work
  • expensive holidays
  • residential school trips
  • tutoring
  • leisure activities such as gym membership or National Trust
  • music lessons
  • meals out, coffee shop out
  • donations to charity

All these things might be considered norms in lots of social circles and some seen as essentials. It's all fine if people have sufficient income to cover the genuine essentials plus these luxuries.

But what happens when finances change - you find yourself separated and on a smaller income, or moving from 2 to 1 income, or having a large debt which eats up a chunk of your money each month, or some other ongoing large expense that wasn't there before like childcare?

Surely then you prioritise the essential services and make sure you can pay your bill so nd buy food right up to next pay day. Surely then you look at the list of luxuries and see where you can reduce expenditure and move to cheaper versions or if needed cut them out altogether.

Surely you cut your cloth to meet your budget? So you accept that private orthodontist work for your teenager or an expensive hobbyis sadly not in your budget.......and these things aren't necessitates and a available to everyone.....not an entitlement of yourself or your children, but luxuries many go without without their lives being ruined.

Debt and financial stress are often cited as some of the biggest difficulties children in affluent families suffer......and suffer they do. Having expensive orthodontist treatment and lovely parties for 30 children don't compensate for growing up knowing your parents are stressed about paying the credit card bill or doing the last food shop of the of the month.

Sensible parents know what matters and what doesn't and don't get into debt or remain in debt because they are having a lifestyle beyond their means. They can recognise when something is a nice-to-have and even a nice-to-have that they used to have and can no longer afford or temporarily can't afford. They don't insisit that having it is non-negotiable or believe that their children will be scarred by not having it.

In the end, we can only have the lifestyle we can afford. Maybe when we were young and single we could eat out lots and have fab holidays and maybe when we were kids we wee privately educated and riding lessons. They aren't or E title nets andif we can't afford them, we either go without or know that by spending beyond our means, we will generate far worse financial problems in th future. And if we are now living with those far worse consequences of earlier spending beyond means, we have to cut back now or sink into worse problems later.

Very few things are essential. Most spending items can be economised on and savings made. When people aren't prepared to recognise that and to adjust their spending, they can't justifiably complain or be surprised or be disappointed to know later that their children found the impact of their financial choices difficult whilst growing up, not the pleasure those things were meant to bring.

YeOldeTrout · 14/01/2020 21:42

I know a family of 6 on low income... ok, I don't know the specifics but dad is disabled so his income is whatever DLA pays, and mom has a low paid not FT job. Their household income (with housing benefit & DLA) can't be more than £16k. They run a car and there are 2 teenagers...

73Sunglasslover · 14/01/2020 22:02

I think £1,000 is an overstatement, but not a million miles off

It has to be as most families don't have that sort of money to spend. I hope it is as I've 2 soon to be teenagers and we don't have 2k for us all to live off let alone just the kids! And we are quite well off.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 14/01/2020 23:23

Having expensive orthodontist treatment and lovely parties for 30 children don't compensate for growing up knowing your parents are stressed about paying the credit card bill or doing the last food shop of the of the month.

This. I had a friend as a child who I was so envious of. Exotic holidays, her own pony, meals out. I had such a boring, ordinary life in comparison. It was only when we got to about 15 that she admitted how much she envied me and loved my house where what to eat and whether the heating was on was not influenced by the day of the month.