To be permanently skint, despite being on a good salary?

[cherriesandapplesandberries]

On paper, we have a good combined income of around £85,000, although it varies slightly and can even go up to around 90 on a good year.

But we seem to be permanently skint, and I don’t mean not much money, I mean absolutely nothing in the bank accounts, scrabbling round for loose change, stressing about how we will get to work, skint. This isn’t a begging thread by the way, I know sometimes people post on MN wanting others to offer them money and I don’t, I’m just trying to explain how it is.

We do have debts, loans and credit cards plus obviously the mortgage, childcare fees, cars which cost then obviously the needs of a growing family.

I know back when I was a young ‘un I’d have fallen about laughing at the idea my current salary isn’t enough to live on, but I just seem to be struggling all of the time!

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

That’s a ridiculous (and very unpleasant) thing to say.

Op, I am sorry this thread went bonkers. But failing to state at the outset that you had a £30k debt was always going to see this picked apart.

I am thrilled IVF worked for you. I am sorry it has left you with so much debt. Once the debt is gone I think you will start to realised how decent hour salary is and will also start to realise how lucky (relatively) you were to have been able to access IVF.

Would you say that to a friend considering ivf?

If a friend told me they were having IVF and it was being funded entirely by debt as they had no savings at all I would try and find a way to point out that most people try and save to have a baby as maternity leave and childcare costs knock you for 6, so doing the opposite by getting into debt to start a family is going to make life even more tough

@nodontwatchloveisland

Tbh most people don’t have a spare £7/10k + for a round of ivf

And as it’s an age thing getting a loan /into debt is the quickest way to get the money

Or can you save £10k in a matter of months

In ivf every month can count if the woman is in her middle /late 30’s So people like myself and op took out loans

Thing is with loans for cars holiday kitchen you are guaranteed something

Ivf you aren’t and can spend/borrow thousands and still no baby and it’s heart breaking from personal experience paying back a huge loan with nothing to show for it

Or if you can’t get preg naturally and have to go medical route does that mean you don’t deserve kids if don’t have the money

Obv having a child Costs but you save and budget for stuff over the years - no one needs £10k to buy stuff for a baby

So the not affording a baby is rubbish

Op - it’s good debt iyswim. You got your children 💐

@DisorganisedOrganiser is there a reason that you can’t have a joint party with another child to halve the costs? I once shared a DC’s whole class party with two other children who had birthdays around the same time - nobody minded!

TBH - we earn a similar amount - still renting and trying to save to buy our own place

I have to say 80k is not a huge ammount of money to be bringing in these days - we are in London, our rent is £1300 a month, council tax is expensive!

We don't have children yet so at the moment we are saving £1000 a month between us in the house deposit fund - but once we have a child that £1000 a month will be going on childcare (childcare is crazy expensive - looking at about £95 a day)

So we will have very little spare money left over at that stage!

PanicAndRun
Then it’s pointless shopping at Aldi if you spunk the food budget for two months on a bday party. Yes. This is my entire point. I do all the stuff that is always suggested to save money. Off the back of this thread I went through our direct debits... nothing unaccounted for. Not the usual ‘oh I was paying £10 a month for something we don’t use so I cancelled it’. I hardly spend anything but the big things like parties, competitions, etc. are so expensive and then wipe us out every few months. I’ll leave this thread now anyway as don’t want to derail any further from the non-existent support and useful advice for the OP.

Lockshunkugel, yes I am seriously considering that for the next party as it is just so expensive. Current one is next month and invitations all sent now.

Parties are a want and not a need. No child needs a party every year. I certainly didn't.

What are competitions that cost money?

On the parties i agree joint is the way forward when whole class is the norm. Other parents appreciate this too as 30 parties is also a lot to attend. I split three ways once. I also put a lot of research into more affordable options like the local council adventure playground where you can do your own catering, hone made scavenger hunts or the £1 cinema. The good news is these tend to tail off by ks2 in favour if equally hellish but cheaper sleepovers, or smaller outings.

It's not enough money for an extravagant lifestyle op. Unfortunately if you have a larger than average mortgage and a nice car you need significant income coming in these days. Just because people live comfortably on half your income doesn't mean you are able to. 1. You'll be taxed more so the net figures are probably not vastly different. 2. Their circumstances may be different, - May have bought before you, grandma may do childcare etc etc also, if you mix in circles of higher earners it can be very depressing watching everyone else have endless holidays and house renovation.

We have an income higher than yours and what you say resonates. But, in the end, I'll be better off than those who might have more true disposable income than me now - my more expensive house will be worth proportionately more and in the end I'll have paid it off. I pay significant amounts into my pension due to being a higher earner. Childcare will stop eventually.

The worst thing is non mortgage debt of course. Prioritise getting rid of that and you will be much better off. Wish I could take my own advice!!

@memberofseven Of course the net figures will be very different. Yes people on higher incomes tend to have higher mortgages, pay more for cars, children's hobbies, etc. That is because they want nicer houses and a nicer lifestyle. Nothing wrong with that, but it costs more.

I agree with whoever said that people’s spending usually increases when their salary does. You see it a lot.
TBH, I thought we weren’t making that same mistake but I wonder now... we pull in £85k between us. Childcare is £500ish per month, mortgage is £600 a month. I own my 11 year old car and husband has a company car. But we still have debt (about £13k) and are going on a fairly expensive holiday this year etc

I think it sometimes really boils down whether you are a spender or a saver to be honest. Even as a 14 yr old I worked in a bed and breakfast and babysat most weekends. I still have my credit union book and that summer I saved over £800...that was a lot of money then. I’m not tight or mean with my money but once I see my saving increase i hate to spend it as such. I do, don’t get me wrong, I have travelled and still do! I treat myself too, I don’t go without! But I don’t spend unnecessarily! we worked hard and abroad away from our families for 3 years purposely to save money to buy a house and be mortgage free!! My car is 12 years old!! We don’t have sky, I don’t have any subscriptions, I meal plan and portion plan etc etc. I don’t even have a credit card. I don’t need or want one.

Karen the point I was making is that the take home difference between a £90k a year job and a £60k a year job after tax and nics and pension )and if you are earning £90k you are irresponsible to not be paying into a pension) is probably around a grand a month. £12k a year. Not enough to be buying a super fancy car or doing a £250k extension or frankly even pay private school fees for one child. Yes you shouldn't be worrying about buying orange juice with bits in but you haven't suddenly been propelled into the life of the super rich.

Last post was actually supposed to be for another thread sorry... suppose it could apply to this thread too 🤷‍♀️

I could have written your thread myself. I am borrowing money at the end of the month, scraping by etc etc. It is my New Year’s resolution to manage my money better. I have been saying for years and years I can’t make my food at home and bring it into work the next day. I now know I can, I just didn’t want to. Am making lots of changes as I want to pay off my credit card and store cards and feel more secure. I do sympathise though as it is really hard when you aren’t someone who isn’t used to being frugal. Good luck with everything.

To the PP who commented that if a friend of theirs was going through IVF and racking up a lot of debt to do so, and what they would say to them.

I appreciate what you are saying, but IVF is such an emotional rollercoaster that often logic goes out of the window. Anyone going into it will be praying for a pregnancy, and more often than not won't be thinking how much a child will actually cost to raise. All they want is a child, and I'm NOT saying that this is the case here, but I have had friends who will go to any and all financial lengths to have one. £50-60k plus is not unheard of.

I think whilst saying the money is going on mortgage, childcare and 101 other needs, it is the 101 other needs that need going through with a fine tooth comb.

Even the mortgage needs looking at to see if you can get it cheaper.

(Saved £50 per month through one phone call to my mortgage provider which turned into saving thousands overall when interest hit the ground)

Everything needs to be looked at as if it is necessary and if it can be bought cheaper from car insurance to a jar of coffee.

It is an expensive time.

Then your kids grow up and teenagers are a whole new level of cost.

Do teenagers really cost £1000 plus a month?

Gosh who thinks teenagers cost £1000pcm?

Mine never cost more than £350pcm each and are incredibly privileged. notwithstanding the school fees. Though I must say dd did cost £6k in a six month period in addition but that was because CAMHS refused to provide NHS services to a teen who was cutting and poisoning.

I say save the party money for when they are teenagers.

Do teenagers really cost £1000 plus a month?

I don’t have teens but can see how it would add up very quickly...

• extracurriculars easily could add up to a hundred or two per month depending on how many things they’re doing and what sort of kit/lessons are involved, and more if it involves travel at weekends
• computer and printer for homework
• phone (once they start going out sans parents)
• transportation (driving lessons plus car and/or bus pass if you don’t want to drive them everywhere, or at least extra petrol for all the driving you do if they aren’t independent)
• they eat even more than normal adults as they’re growing
• teen girls will need things like bras/tampons and want things like regular decent haircuts
• new clothes/shoes/uniform every time they hit a growth spurt, and they are likely to be more sensitive to fitting in with fashion and brands
• school trips
• possibly a tutor for GCSE and A-level exams?
• adult price to take them on the family holiday
• adult price to do anything fun as a family (days out, restaurants, shows, etc)
• pocket money for things like the occasional cinema trip/concert/etc with friends

Etc etc

Granted, a lot of these are not necessary expenses (food and clothes could be procured cheaply in a pinch, activities are not obligatory, etc), but I would expect most people with teens would be aiming to pay for at least some of those things at least some of the time? If you really were to write out everything you spend on them and do the sums (compared to not having a child at all, teen or otherwise), I expect 1k is probably not far off.

I have 2 current teens, an ex-teen, and a future teen. We are not spending £24k/yr on the 2 x current teens. Despite their best efforts.

Teen#1 currently throwing things at future teen, sigh.

Teens do cost but ive not spent that much on mine, maybe over the years.

I had a fairly privileged childhood & my parents definitely didn't spend loads on me so I was surprised by the comments that they cost the same as childcare for small dc.