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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WWYD overreacting to hitty child

150 replies

Mumtown · 12/01/2020 01:52

I’m quite at a loss here and would appreciate some advice.

So I have a mum friend who I get on very well with (only mum friend I could imagine being friends with outside of the context of our children). Her DS is quite violent I guess. Lots of hitting, pulling hair, biting etc. There hasn’t been a single play date where something this hasn’t happened. I’ve just seen it as kids being kids, my child is not averse to playing tough and has her moments too (not as frequently but even so). On a whole my child likes this child and asks to arrange play dates. Both children are four for context.

But a few things have happened over the past few play dates that make me wonder whether I should cut contact. First there was the knife episode. This happened about six months ago. The boy grabbed a knife off the kitchen counter and lunged at my child. Knife put away, nobody hurt, it was foolish of me to leave it out, all forgotten. Then nothing (except for the usual hair pulling and hitting) for a long time then a few play dates ago the child put a lamp cord around my child’s neck and pulled a bit. Again cord removed, all over in a split second and no harm done.

But since then we’ve not seen each other except at parties/out and about. We’re due to go to their house for a play date tomorrow evening but the thought of it is making me so nervous I can’t sleep. I’m worried about what may happen when they go play upstairs (they always do this, I couldn’t really follow them up without upsetting mum friend). I’m tempted to just tell her I have the flu but ultimately will have to make a decision one way or the other. Is this something normal that the boy will grow out of if I avoid seeing them long enough or is he a danger to my child and should I just stop arranging to see her?

OP posts:
Elandra · 12/01/2020 01:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

messolini9 · 12/01/2020 02:02

(they always do this, I couldn’t really follow them up without upsetting mum friend)

Friend presumably knows all about the knife & lamp cord incidents, so how could she possibly be upset that you wish to supervise any upstairs play?

Original poster
Mumtown · 12/01/2020 02:03

@Elandra both four

OP posts:
Dividingthementalload · 12/01/2020 02:05

I wouldn’t be taking my child anywhere near a child who hits or kicks without admonishment. Let alone one who tries to stab or strangle them. What on earth are you thinking? Trust your gut. I wouldn’t make an excuse; I’d explain honestly that you are genuinely worried your child will be hurt by hers because they are out of control.

Original poster
Mumtown · 12/01/2020 02:08

@messolini9 the knife thing couldn’t really occur in their bedrooms where there is no knife. The cord thing she just brushed off (just told her child off and made him apologise, although she may have had words with him once they had left, I don’t know), I would have gone absolutely nuclear if it was my DD, I’ve really told her off over putting things around her owm neck in the past though so I may have a tendency to catastrophise.

I know there have been issues with other parents supervising all play over the hitting in the past that she’s been quite upset about so I think if I started insisting on supervising them she’d be quite upset. She has other things going on in her life at the moment so I’d like to avoid hurting her feelings if possible.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mumtown · 12/01/2020 02:12

@Dividingthementalload she does tell him off, ever single time even over little things. It does seem to have some kind effect but he just does it again after some time. Tbh the hitting doesn’t worry me or my DD. Lots of children hit, it’s never really hurt anyone, unlike a cord around the throat. I just wondered whether I was being a bit OTT (I’m one of those mothers who still get up to make sure her PFB is still breathing at night).

OP posts:
Clackyheels · 12/01/2020 02:14

Just tell her the truth and ask for some toys to be brought downstairs so you can supervise their play. I never used to let dad go upstairs to play with her cousins as she would always end up crying. Now she can hold her own a little.

GrumpyHoonMain · 12/01/2020 02:15

Honestly why do you give a shiny shit about upsetting this friend? She clearly doesn’t care enough about you to supervise her DS. Also, at 4, it’s not normal to stab or try to strangle a child — in fact I would think it’s grounds for calling social services. SEN or not the child is clearly being shown somewhere that stabbing / strangling is ‘okay’.

Butterymuffin · 12/01/2020 02:15

She has other things going on in her life at the moment so I’d like to avoid hurting her feelings if possible.

I think then either you make an excuse and cancel for tomorrow, or you will have to come up with some other reason why DC have to not go out on your sight. Not sure which is best / easiest.

messolini9 · 12/01/2020 02:15

She has other things going on in her life at the moment so I’d like to avoid hurting her feelings if possible.

Won't it hurt her feelings more for a good friend to be making excuses not to meet up?

Your friend needs to own her child's behaviour. It's not getting any better by her brushing off incidents or repeating verbal warnings to no effect, is it?

She doesn't seem to have realised how bloody dodgy the cord thing was. Does her child ever get given clear consequences for his more violent/dangerous actions?

Original poster
Mumtown · 12/01/2020 02:23

@messolini9 as far as I am aware these are the only dangerous things he’s done. As far as I am aware being the key words of course. And I can’t know how she acted when they left our house after the cord thing obviously.

@GrumpyHoonMain this is what I was wondering about. The knife thing he was still three but the cord thing was a couple of weeks ago. I don’t really know whether a child that age should understand the consequences of doing that and I rather doubt that he’s seen that anywhere (mum is very much a nice middle class no tv ever type of mother along with everyone the child spends time with). I just wondered whether if I prevaricated he’d just grow out of it or whether it would be best to prevent them from being friends so that no issues arise when they are older iyswim?

OP posts:
Ponoka7 · 12/01/2020 02:33

What other things has she got going on? Is the child reacting to this, or is he being exposed to things which are damaging?

differentnameforthis · 12/01/2020 02:44

Absolutely NO unsupervised play. AT ALL. EVER.

I am surprised you have to ask if he is a danger considering what you listed in your op.

I would actually be 100% honest with mum "Sorry, but due to X attacking my child firstly with a knife, and then with a cord we will not being doing play dates/allowing unsupervised play for the foreseeable future" then tell her it's off, or that you will be watching them closely.

This is NOT normal. I only ever once known 2 children to be this violent, one has a allergy to a common food that made him hyperactive and uncontrollable, and the other we had no idea why. He was never properly disciplined, or had any intervention as to why he was so violent.

If the parents aren't tackling it, they do not care about your daughter's safety.

BillHadersNewWife · 12/01/2020 03:26

4 is well old enough to know not to bite, hit or pull hair. That alone would stop me making playdates. Your own child might pick up on his behaviour too!

Cremebrule · 12/01/2020 03:31

I’m shocked at how blasé you’ve been about this. The behaviour is not normal. You seem quite chilled out over the hitting/biting too which isn’t that normal at that age really. You sort of have to upset your friend either way. Your child is more important than trying to keep up appearances.

Luckystar777 · 12/01/2020 03:34

You sound smart OP, so why the hell are you letting this horrid kids anywhere near yours?

B0bbin · 12/01/2020 03:36

I'd make an excuse. Sorry OP

differentnameforthis · 12/01/2020 03:45

She has other things going on in her life at the moment so I’d like to avoid hurting her feelings if possible.

Sacrificing your child's right to be safe in the process, then.

If she is THAT upset about her son having to be supervised while playing she should act! This child may well become a violent adult.

Don't think he can't find things to harm your dd in his room/bathroom..clothing, a scarf, toys, razors, etc.

Think op...if he can grab a knife in front of you, if he can wrap a cord around her neck in front of you, what else is he capable of?

I hate doing this, because this situation is bad enough, and doesn't need a comparison or what if ... but what if they were both 16 and in a relationship? You'd be OK with not hurting his mum's feelings then, would you? It is NO different.

Also, by allowing your dd to continue to playing with him you are telling her that it is OK to accept abuse in order to ease feelings of hurt! NO WAY! You brush off hitting and kicking too, which is NOT OK and already will have given your dd a distorted sense of what is right and wrong

StoppinBy · 12/01/2020 03:54

Upsetting her is secondary to protecting your child. If she doesn't see a need to supervise then she is a dick head.

Toomanygerbils · 12/01/2020 04:00

He’s four, he’s not horrid or evil despite what has happened in the past, I would hate to see any child labelled so at such a young age. But you do have a choice now, you can not meet up or you can make up a reason to keep DD within sight. Or you could also tell the truth and state after what has happened previously you’d rather she spent time with her son but with supervision. Id hope his mum would understand the honesty

fargo123 · 12/01/2020 04:10

I’m shocked at how blasé you’ve been about this. The behaviour is not normal. You seem quite chilled out over the hitting/biting too which isn’t that normal at that age really. You sort of have to upset your friend either way. Your child is more important than trying to keep up appearances.

I agree.

Step up and protect your child! I don't care what age they are, if someone had tried to choke or stab my child, that's the last time we'd ever see those people, and I'd tell them why.

butwhateverfor · 12/01/2020 04:12

This is not at all normal. I'd also be wondering if this boy was being exposed to domestic violence and would think carefully about reporting it to SS. I'm certainly no stranger to a hitty child, either, hence my own recent thread, but this is something else.

butwhateverfor · 12/01/2020 04:13

Also, no, I would absolutely not see them again.

MsTSwift · 12/01/2020 06:19

Wow. I thought you were going to be talking about 2 year olds giving the odd shove even the nicest child sometimes did that. This is in an entirely different league. Four is old enough to know better and your child could be properly hurt. Sometimes being a good parent involves pissing off other adults. This is one of those times. If you went and he hurt her or worse you would never forgive yourself

malovitt · 12/01/2020 06:38

I was I your exact position OP but the mother in question was my best friend of many years. She is a lovely woman, gentle and kind and her son was surrounded by a calm loving family. He constantly hurt my child but made out it was accidental - things like slapping her and then pretending he was swatting a fly away and 'missed', stepping on my child's fingers when she was crawling etc. My friend told him off every time and we watched him like hawks. Every time he did something she would immediately take him home.
Things calmed down and we thought he'd grown out of it. Then when they were both four, we were playing outside in the garden one summer's day. My friend nipped to the loo and I went inside to get some water. I came outside and he was holding my daughter's face down in the paddling pool.
I torment myself to this day imagining what could have happened if I had dithered in the kitchen. Please act to protect your child and sod your friend's feelings.