WWYD overreacting to hitty child

[Mumtown]

I’m quite at a loss here and would appreciate some advice.

So I have a mum friend who I get on very well with (only mum friend I could imagine being friends with outside of the context of our children). Her DS is quite violent I guess. Lots of hitting, pulling hair, biting etc. There hasn’t been a single play date where something this hasn’t happened. I’ve just seen it as kids being kids, my child is not averse to playing tough and has her moments too (not as frequently but even so). On a whole my child likes this child and asks to arrange play dates. Both children are four for context.

But a few things have happened over the past few play dates that make me wonder whether I should cut contact. First there was the knife episode. This happened about six months ago. The boy grabbed a knife off the kitchen counter and lunged at my child. Knife put away, nobody hurt, it was foolish of me to leave it out, all forgotten. Then nothing (except for the usual hair pulling and hitting) for a long time then a few play dates ago the child put a lamp cord around my child’s neck and pulled a bit. Again cord removed, all over in a split second and no harm done.

But since then we’ve not seen each other except at parties/out and about. We’re due to go to their house for a play date tomorrow evening but the thought of it is making me so nervous I can’t sleep. I’m worried about what may happen when they go play upstairs (they always do this, I couldn’t really follow them up without upsetting mum friend). I’m tempted to just tell her I have the flu but ultimately will have to make a decision one way or the other. Is this something normal that the boy will grow out of if I avoid seeing them long enough or is he a danger to my child and should I just stop arranging to see her?

What the heck is he watching that he’s seen knives being used and strangulation?

Don’t ever let them play unsupervised.

You have to be honest with your friend about her child. You may lose a friend but your child's safety is more important.

YANBU and if I were you, I'd limit how much interaction your child has with this other child. If they do play together, it must be supervised! You need to put your child first and protect them.

The occasional hitting is normal at 4 yo however the knife and cord incident are not! They are learnt behaviours and I'd question what was happening behind closed doors be that violent tv/games to domestic violence/child abuse.

I once looked after two girls, a 4 yo and a 2 yo. The 4yo was quiet and withdrawn, the 2 yo was the most aggressive child I've ever met. Would throttle children by the neck, pin them against the wall whilst hitting them etc. Turns out their father was beating their mum every day .

Put your child's safety above your friend's feelings. Simple!

I would never expose my child to a violent child like this. My son has never bitten or hit another child never mind pulled a knife. He sounds seriouslyou disturbed and I'd tell his mothere house are not prepared to put your daughter at risk any more.
He could stab her in the face with a pencil, push her downstairs, anything. It isn't safe there.

I am actually struggling to believe this is a real question. Firstly I wouldn’t let my 4 year old play unsupervised upstairs at someone’s house full stop. All kinds of accidents can happen at that age. And given the violence you have witnessed, how can you even be thinking of leaving them together out of your sight for a second?! Your poor DD. You need to prioritise being a good Mum ahead of anything else. Either they play together in the same room as you or not at all.

Protect your child. Stop associating with this woman and her child. You can feel sympathy for her without putting your child in harm's way. The violence that child is exhibiting is definitely not normal. The mother is being irresponsible in not having him assessed. Put your child's safety first and concern for your friends feelings after your own.

See her without your child. Honestly, you are putting your child at risk by your own admission please listen to you instincts.

I understand OP, I have an amazing mum friend who unfortunately has a very obnoxious child who loves to hurt. I've had to stop play dates because it was just becoming too much and wasn't fair on my son. I've never told her the reason, just made up excuses each time a play date conversation arose. However, I have managed to maintain a friendship with the mum and we regularly go out for coffee or to the local pub for a drink, so it is possible. I think you need to protect your child first and foremost in this situation, other people's feelings are secondary

@Mumtown ask yourself this ....

In a years time which will bother me more, losing a friend or allowing my child to be seriously hurt.

You must say something to your friend. Her ds is not displaying normal behaviour. DV can happen in all families regardless of house nice they may seem.

Whether this is your genuine situation or a reverse something needs to be done to address the issue. Making excuses will probably lose the friendship anyway without solving the issue.

Why would you compromise your childs safety because you're scared of upsetting her? You clearly don't want the kids playing unsupervised (I agree at 4 years old) and you put her feelings above your own protective instincts. This child has form with hurting other children too. Get a backbone and explain in the nicest way possible why they can't play upstairs. You really shouldn't be losing sleep over this one!

Seriously @Mumtown you have to ask?!!!

Those two incidents alone are enough to tell me that this little boy has seen violent things and is emulating them. Those are NOT normal play/naughty behaviours.

Do NOT let your child play with him unsupervised night if it were me I’d be putting severe distance between them.

Your DD’s safety comes first - not manners around upsetting his mum!

are you waiting for your child to be killed before you make a decision? jesus christ. you are putting your child in harm's way every time you see her and her god-awful child.

you worry about upsetting her, but what about your poor child? wise up.

OP, does your child even want to go there- his wishes you never mentioned.
He doesn’t have to be put out there for the other boy as a punch bag to went his frustrations.

Protect your DS! Your friend is an adult and can cope with being upset.

Has someone accused you of being precious, PFB, overcautious, snowflakey, helicopter parent or something? Because your concerns are totally understandable and not you overreacting at all!

Trust your gut instinct here - you are absolutely right to be worried about leaving them to play unsupervised and I absolutely would not allow it in your shoes.

Whether you choose to still see your friend and her child is up to you - but NO unsupervised play EVER. YOU stay with the children at all times, as your friend seems to have a much more laissez-faire attitude to this - and if your friend is upset, then that's just too bad - it's better than something awful happening and you both having to live with the guilt of it.

You can't allow unsupervised play upstairs for 4 year olds. I wouldn't do this even without the potentially dangerous incidents in the past.

And tbh your child shouldn't have to put up with the hitting either.

Being a friend doesn't mean putting your child in the path of possibly being seriously injured.

Just say 'I'd like them to play down here. I'd rather we kept an eye on them. I feel bad about having left them in the past.'

If your friend has a problem with that then either you have to address it with her or you have to stop going round

And btw what he does is seriously not normal. He must have seen the knife lunge and cord tightening somewhere. Preferably on tv but that's still bad.

In my experience if he is doing these things at 4, he’s not going to grow out of it. My DS has a couple of friends who were like this at 3 / 4 / 5 years of age and now at 8 they both have been diagnosed with behavioral problems. The hitting, when it’s compulsive like that and not just an occasional incident, shows some need for stimulation or lack of impulse control. The knife and lamp cord incidents are exactly the kind of thing that show a lack of empathy and impulse control in your friend’s son. Sorry to say I don’t think that kind of behavior is something kids grow out of (unlike the kind of low-key roughhousing that most 3-4 year olds do sometimes.

It’s a tough decision. I lost a friend over this when her DS was constantly hurting mine and she never gave him consequences. She got snippy with me when I tried to address it with her and froze me out socially. No loss to my DS. I’d rather he has friends who don’t hit him, which he now has!

Since your DD is a girl, it’s even more important to teach her that boys hurting her is not ok and you’re there to stand up for her and keep her safe. If you still insist on having play dates then you’ll just have to supervise the kids very carefully, never leave the DC out of your sight. Who cares if it upsets the other mother? Your duty is to your DD, not this other parent.

Hi op, I work in childcare and am a mum of 3 (including a boy who was a biter). That is not normal behaviour (going for knvies, strangling, etc)for a 4 year old and if I saw that continued behaviour in one of my settings I would be flagging it up. Never, ever leave your child alone with that other child. There is something going on there that needs immediate attention and intervention and it's not happening so I would not be leaving a child alone with him until things would be assessed. Biting, hitting etc does happen but by 4 that's not typical behaviour.

Tbh if anything you are under reacting not over. Be aware it may adversely affect your relationship with your own child. She relies on you to keep her safe yet there you go trotting off to hang out with your pal in full knowledge she is likely to be harmed?! In 10 years you probably won’t be friends but your child will be left knowing you put her in harms way? Your response to this scenario is very odd and passive.

That's not normal behaviour. Why are you brushing it over, in case you upset your friend?! Your childs safety comes first, not your friendship. What is wrong with you? If you hadn't stepped in, how would those knife and cable strangulation incidents have turned out?! Seriously end the play dates because that child is far too violent.

I've been around long enough to know how the lived of some of the children who behaved like this when very young turned out. It's not always good. Distance yourself from this child for safety's sake.

Everyone in prison or a secure psychiatric unit was four once. Some of them will have been behaving like this. Don't ponder the why; that's not your issue. Concentrate on the what and make sure it doesn't impact your child.

No way would I be even arranging a playdate.
My kid isn't a punching bag

Don't care what she has going on, no excuse for letting it get that extreme. 4 yr olds know better. Not once in dd year at kindy was she bit, hit, had her hair pulled and there were 25 other 4 yr olds

After the cord incident, which could have been serious, you can't allow your child to play unsupervised with him.

So it's up to you whether to cancel the play date or insist on supervising them. Which would hurt your friend's feelings more? Surely in the long term it would be worse if you refuse to meet up at all.

You can blame yourself - say you're really sorry but things around the neck make you feel really nervous.

If the mother doesn’t address this behaviour she has difficult times ahead. Most parents aren’t as unreactive as you and won’t put up with this - might actually be doing her a favour to flag now

I think you’re under reacting to this, OP. As others have said, how on earth does he even know/think to use a knife and cord in that way at the age of four?

I also agree about unsupervised play being out of the question at this age.

I’d ditch the play dates and just see your friend alone. Protecting your child comes first.