AIBU to think there’s no justification for eating meat and dairy any more?

[AnnoyingVegan]

People are educated now. People know that eating meat and dairy is disastrous for the planet. People know it’s causing an unprecedented climate crisis. People know it causes untold cruelty to animals.

So why are people still doing it? There is a vegan substitute for virtually every meat and dairy product you can think of. What is going on here?

The number of people I’ve seen on social media breaking their hearts over Australia shooting wild camels and horses because they drink too much water while still eating beef blows my mind.

People are conflating multiple issues here.

Pure veganism is about the animals, not the environment or health.

They are perceived benefits but this is not the primary motivator for most vegans and so arguing for/against veganism on the basis of environmental or health grounds is like arguing for/against meat consumption with similar reasoning. Everyone will find the scientific study that backs their lifestyle. Anecdotes are just that.

On ethical grounds however, I don't think we can ever justify the sheer number of animals slaughtered and the suffering caused through factory farming. They are sentient, they feel pain, they do not want to die. We have become greedy - nobody needs as much meat as we're consuming; meat eating is a privilege.

A PP said they only eat red meat a little, twice a week. Imagine saying that to somebody 100 years ago? Twice a week is actually quite a lot in my opinion.

I do think you can justify people hunting for food and making the best possible use of the animal in locations where plant based alternatives are not a practicality.

I also think there are people who are limited by illness and may need animal products to live healthily but also think they should strive to buy the highest welfare meat possible.

It all depends on your own moral compass and situation. I am lucky to be healthy, knowledgeable about cooking and in a society where plant based foods are freely accessed. I also consider myself an animal lover and so choose not to eat them but you can't make people change their ethics.

I agree the debate should be about how we ethically raise and kill our animals

The UK are actually pretty good and cowboys are flushed out very quickly.

A lot of the vegan propaganda comes from elsewhere, especially the US.

I don’t think many people who eat meat approve of factory farming methods

I didn't know about the stroke risk!

Here's a link:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-49579820

All this talking of meat made me slow cook a roast yesterday. I just had leftovers on white bread with salt and butter for breakfast. The only thing I want to know is why does it taste so bloody nice. Surely if we weren't meant to eat animals they would not taste so good. Like herbivores don't eat meat. I am presuming it's not for ethical reasons that hippos don't eat hyenas. Are we not omnivores? My children went veggie around age 11 and I was always happy to cook them alternatives but never had the urge myself. I could probably cut down on meat for health reasons but atm I base most of my meals around the meat choice. I didn't realise I had to justify my food choices to anyone and have no plans of eating a meat free diet.

They would want that cycle to end. I would rather they were rescued and could live out their days naturally.

Brilliant, and who is going to pay for that?!

What causes the most damage to our environment?

What list are you using OP?

Presumably Sir David Attenborough and the likes of Greta Thunberg have a list of the main culprits.

India and Asia
Business producing waste
Fuel & Gas, fossil fuels and power stations?

I wonder how much being vegan helps, if you are failing to address the bigger issues?

India and aisa as the biggest carbon emitters?

India footprint is much smaller than the USA in total carbon footprint

And if you calculate carbon footprint per person

China 8, USA 16, uk 5.6 , India 1.9 tons

And the reason China is high? Because they make the stuff that we buy. We offshore our carbon footprint to them

Why would anyone need to 'justify' eating meat or dairy?

There is no reason for anyone to be eating meat now. We are all educated and there are alternatives to killing animals for food. Fact.

What are these alternatives? Are the complete proteins with a decent amount of iron zinc, b vitamins and omega 3? Are they unprocessed?

What would we do with farm animals? They can't be pets. It's expensive to feed them too.
Also what would you feed pets? They can't live on vegetables.
I truly don't want to be vegan.

There is no reason for anyone to be eating meat now. We are all educated and there are alternatives to killing animals for food. Fact.

Anyone actually educated understands that there are reasons. Fact🤷

@MaxNormal yes. Where do you think animals get their protein from??? 😂😂

@AllergicToAMop do share then?

@MaxNormal

Yep you can get all of the nutrients you need from plant alternatives that are no more processed than a piece of meat.

But again, that's about health. And veganism is about animals.

@iamadalek2 RTFT

I think it's about personal choice. If you want to be vegan be vegan. If you want to eat animals do that. What I cannot bear is meat eaters feeling they need to discuss the subject with me when they find out I'm vegan. "I mean I hardly eat any meat.....you know just really chicken and turkey oh and ido love a bacon sandwich.......and ribs from the Chinese.....but apart from that I'm mostly vegan myself" Also comments from my MIL that she only really eats halal because it's much better for the animal because otherwise they know they're going to be shot! 😂😂😂 I find wine helps!!!

iamadalek2 do you mean herbivore animals? I'm sadly lacking the other three stomachs necessary to be able to eat as they do.

Meat isn't processed at all if one avoids bacon, sausage etc. Can someone please specify exactly what these complete protein plant alternatives are?

There is no alternative as good as animal protein.

Our entire physiology is designed to digest it. Same as a gorillas is designed to digest plants. Same as a cats is designed to digest meat. It’s like vegans think they can trump biology.

When you get a pet, do you say “what does this animal need to eat to thrive?” Or do you say “what do I morally think this animal should eat?”

It’s total madness. What Douglas Murray calls ‘retired St. George syndrome’. People have nothing to worry about, don’t feel like they are making a difference, need a cause to fight for.

The biggest issue is the world is over populated

The population has doubled in under 50 years

That’s the real issue we can change farming and all having a plant based diet will impact the environment (and livelihoods)

So YABU op there is a bigger picture to look at

Soy is a complete protein.

But you don't have to eat soya to get all the essential aminos. You just eat a combination of plant based proteins like nuts, legumes, cruciferous veg.

It's not a challenge to eat a nutritionally complete whole foods plant based diet.

@hamstersarse

But there's no denying we're much closer in physiology to gorillas than cats so much more of our diet should be plant based than reliant on animal products if we're looking at that as a guideline.

This ultimately a ridiculous and pointless argument.

Vegan, omnivore, carnivore, plastic, food miles, almonds, soy, fossil fuels, solar power, wind energy, electric cars, lithium batteries, mica in cosmetics, carbon footprints........

The problem is that there are too many humans on this planet.

End of.

Eatting British near that has high welfare standards, low food miles and is reared on hill farms ( where you can't grow soy etc anyway) is by far the best compromise. Cows on grass land also produce much less methane.
Better than soy that's ruining the rainforest and flown half way round the world and massively processed.

@Thornhill58 My vegan cousin feeds a vegan diet to his dog........