AIBU to think there’s no justification for eating meat and dairy any more?

[AnnoyingVegan]

People are educated now. People know that eating meat and dairy is disastrous for the planet. People know it’s causing an unprecedented climate crisis. People know it causes untold cruelty to animals.

So why are people still doing it? There is a vegan substitute for virtually every meat and dairy product you can think of. What is going on here?

The number of people I’ve seen on social media breaking their hearts over Australia shooting wild camels and horses because they drink too much water while still eating beef blows my mind.

Oat milk is a pretty good alternative

My latte says NO

It’s not good enough to say ‘people dying out is a good thing for the planet’ when we aren’t the ones doing the dying. Well that's the only time I'd say it. I have a long list of people who are a waste of resources.

Seriously though a lower population is the only solution. Reducing resources used by individuals just makes room for the population to grow and cancel out the gain.

If the population were a fraction of what it is now our needs would be less than the planet can provide regardless of how we lived.

You don't have to kill people to get there, but slow down producing more.

Getting everyone to cooperate with that would be next to impossible so we will likely do nothing and then people will die in large numbers anyway.

You don't have to kill people to get there, but slow down producing more.

And another, controversial, idea is to make euthanasia available, especially to those in old age who don't enjoy a good quality of life. Sorry, but most people in know, don't want to live to become completely infirm and kept alive through endless interventions and a drugs cocktail.

The only problem is that people who lack capacity couldn't opt for it, for obvious reasons.

It can come from both ends as it were.

I eat meat and dairy because I like it. I am willing to cut down on my consumption of meat, and am planning more meat free meals, but that is as far as I am willing to go.

Having a diet that cannot include legumes can be extremely hard to when it comes to B12 and VitD. Phospate rich foods are meat, dairy, eggs, cereals, legumes and nuts.

Now add-in a legume and egg allergy, low carb, low fibre, low sugar and your food group is reduced further.

LastTrainEast no, of course they won't. Where did i say i wanted them to?

You are a terrible vegan as you've probably actively turned people off ever trying to do vegan with this crappy thread.

I'm all for reducing the use of meat and animal products, and as the years go on, we eat less and less of it, but the vegan proselytising about how veganism is going to save the planet single-handedly, as it were, can get somewhat exasperating.

Just a few things to consider in terms of impact on the planet: almonds (Californian drought, anyone?); soya (one of the main meat substitutes); quinoa (now pretty much unaffordable for the poorer folk in the countries it's native to, so that posh white western people can tell themselves they're woke); and lentils (don't grow easily in the UK, given our current climate; I could only find one company that grows them here, so supply is limited). So for all of these you are looking at food miles. I could go on.

It's great that some people can cycle to work and have the time to run an allotment. Not everyone has that luxury. I presume no animal manure is used on the plot; how do you square the fact that you might be killing earthworms, wasps and insects with every step?

Just out of curiosity, when you get to work, which I presume is extremely ethical and never does anything that requires a compromise, is everything made of recycled plastic or other substances, and is all the energy used generated from sustainable sources? Is the water recycled from a rainbutt or roof collector? Do you wear glasses, or use any tools on their allotment that are made of plastic? That all has massive effects on the planet as well. Just as a couple of examples.

Personally I have days when I feel so guiilty about daring to take up ANY of the planet's resources that I'm contemplating starting a cult where I sit naked in a bit of woodland, consuming only berries and nuts that have fallen to the earth and the occasional insects that have died of natural causes and that the birds don't want for the rest of my life. And drinking water that gently trickles down from the leaves of the trees overhead.

Anyway, it won't be long before we're subsisting on a diet of microbes, air and water, yum yum yum:www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51019798 (I'm not thinking Soylent Green AT ALL on this one.) Although if life has taught me nothing else, it is that there is always a price to pay, whatever we do. We sometimes just don't know the price until much, much later. And it seems it's a fairly joyless world we're heading into.

The thing that actually has the major impact on the planet is not breeding in the first place, if you'll excuse my bluntness. But, you know, accidents sometimes happen and kids aren't always planned.

Because it’s my choice to eat meat and dairy like it’s yours not to, because a lot of vegan substitutes are highly processed and terrible for you and because there will never ever be a decent cheese alternative ever!

@okiedokieme actually the B12 in animals... 80% is absorbed by them from vitamins they're fed. So you're just taking supplements but in a secondary stage.

B12 naturally occurs in SOIL we used to get enough by drinking stream water but now it is easy to get enough as many plant mills are fortified with B12 like animal feed is.

@MyOwnSummer so you can't eat any vegetables or pulses?

Most vegans don't eat the processed shit. We eat whole foods, like vegetables and grains.

You're really saying you can't eat most veg?

I don’t have kids or pets and I cycle to work. I also grow most of my own veg on my allotment. But even if I didn’t do those things, giving up meat and dairy is still, by far, the single biggest thing a person can do to reduce their carbon footprint.

That's not true. A vegan who has their own biological children will contribute the deaths of far more animals (and far more destruction to the planet) than a childless meat-eater will. I think the general public severely underestimates how many resources the average person uses over the course of their life, especially in the developed world.

Yes humans used to get a12 from soil so we didnt require meat in our diets! The b12 in animal produce is what is pumped into their foods and them. So still having to supplement really.

Let me guess. No kids. No husband. Awkward auntie. 34. Drinks own urine. Wears clashing coloured clothes and vegan leather shoes

I don’t really understand the argument that in order to recommend veganism, you have to live your life in a completely carbon-neutral and waste-free way. Omnivores are also buying packaged foods etc. They’re just eating environmentally devastating animal products on top of it.

You also see a lot of people seeming to suggest that every omnivore in this country is consuming nothing but local grass fed beef, seasonal native fruit and veg, and eggs from back yard hens while every vegan consumes non stop avocados, almonds, soy and quinoa. It’s nonsense. Omnivores are still eating the avocados alongside the bacon rolls. A lot of vegans eat absolutely no soy and avoid almonds like the plague.

The reality of the situation is that a huge amount of harmful, intensive animal agriculture goes on in this country, because there is consumer demand for it. There’s no point pretending otherwise.

Worrying about people eating meat when our oceans are full of litter, Australia is literally burning down, and people are dying in conflict areas. Never read such a stupid fucking post OP 🙄

Worrying about people eating meat when our oceans are full of litter, Australia is literally burning down, and people are dying in conflict areas. Never read such a stupid fucking post OP 🙄

Genuine question which will sound snarky but isn’t meant to: is this a sarcastic post, or do you genuinely not know about the link between consuming meat and all of the things you described in your post?

Omnivores are also buying packaged foods etc.
We get our meat from the local butcher and take our own packaging. Fruit and veg from the market or veg box, again no packaging.
If we ate meat and cheese and butter alternatives they would come with more packaging. I know not all vegans do this but we wouldn't be able to get all our protein and fat from loose weighed out pulses and nuts.

The planet will be fine. We as a race might be buggered though, but I wouldn't expect us to live forever.

@drspouse I’m sure that’s true and I’m not trying to suggest that every omnivore is buying packages and processed foods. I’m just pointing out that the world isn’t divided into omnivores who exclusively eat local, organic, whole foods and vegans who exclusively eat packaged, processed foods from overseas.

Except that we’re also making it unfit for other animals on this planet too. A lot of species will go extinct generations before we do.

And the planet will still be fine. 95% of all species that have ever lived on Earth are extinct. It's a shame will take other creature with us when we go down, but other species will rise up following our demise, and the planet will recover from our stupidity.

I mostly eat vegetarian but not through choice but because my husband is veggie and I can't be arsed to fanny about making 2 different meals and keeping everything separate. I like veggie stuff (some substitutes are bad but most are ok) but I'd never go full veggie and certainly not vegan. I like meat and I love cheese. Sometimes I just really fancy a sausage sandwich and veggies sausage just aren't the same. Don't get me started on vegan cheese, it's the rankest thing I think I've ever tried. People have the right to choose how they live and we all just need to get on with it. The more you try and force an ideal on people the more they'll do the opposite.

Yay! I only eat 1 avocado a month or so.

Unfortunately I have a form of auto immune deficiency which means I have pernicious anaemia. I'm a very healthy vegetarian (and I know my nutritional 'stuff' eat clean etc) my bloods are good and my anaemia, with the help of vegetarian supplements, is under control. Every time I have gone vegan my anaemia is back, and the treatment then is B vitamin shots from the Dr (shots not vegan!) Note, these are a treatment not a solution to not being anaemic and so there are risks to my long term health due to the anaemia . So I have a reason, not an excuse, for not being vegan.... And I'm likely not the only person out there in my position!

mumoftinyterrors so we can only worry about one problem a time? The awful circumstances in Australia do not in anyway negate the suffering that trillions of animals go through every day all over the world.
Would you walk up to a woman at a feminism rally and have a go at her for not standing up against racism? Or ask to a poppy wearer why they are not wearing a bracelet for stand up to cancer?
Everyone has different moral compasses. I'm sorry if a bunch of people who are against animal exploitation offends you.