AIBU to think there’s no justification for eating meat and dairy any more?

[AnnoyingVegan]

People are educated now. People know that eating meat and dairy is disastrous for the planet. People know it’s causing an unprecedented climate crisis. People know it causes untold cruelty to animals.

So why are people still doing it? There is a vegan substitute for virtually every meat and dairy product you can think of. What is going on here?

The number of people I’ve seen on social media breaking their hearts over Australia shooting wild camels and horses because they drink too much water while still eating beef blows my mind.

Stop wasting internet on snide comments Skyejuly.

In what sense @Skyejuly? You can’t drop that and not elaborate.

The carbon footprint of the internet is not mentioned enough imo.

Ooooooh good point juliet! The cloud isn't actually a big, carbon neutral cloud in the sky, it's a bricks and mortar plant (I think - not a technical person) which produces lots of carbon! Jeez, it never ends.

It all takes a lot of cooling too apparently.

You make that sound like a bad thing. It's only a bad thing for us, but people dying out is a good thing for the planet, and all the other life on it.

It’s not that simple though, is it? Because it’s not going to be privileged westerners guzzling meat five days a week who die out. It’s not Europe which will be the first to fall to climate disaster.

The countries which will face the worst consequences are those with high instances of poverty. Countries like Haiti, Timor-Leste, the DRC, Uganda and Niger. The most vulnerable are people living in the world’s poorest countries, and the billions of people who survive by smallholder farming and rely on the climate and natural resources to survive.

Unpredictable weather patterns, shifting seasons, and natural disasters disproportionately threaten these populations. Food and resource scarcity disproportionately threaten these populations. Resource based conflicts disproportionately threaten these populations.

It’s not good enough to say ‘people dying out is a good thing for the planet’ when we aren’t the ones doing the dying.

This is what happens when you encourage people to consume alternatives like almond milk.

Environmental destruction and mass bee deaths. There is no straightforward solution here. Certainly just buying vegan alternatives to meat and dairy doesn’t sort it.

Shutting down pasture farming in the UK is not going to be helpful though. It needs to be optimised, but it can provide nourishing foods.

Anyway switching off now to be green! If only my kids would. Picking my battles as they say..

There is no straightforward solution here.

Oat milk is a pretty good alternative

It must be cheaper and greener to soak your own oats in tap water?

Do you honestly think the world is capable of producing enough vegan stuff to feed everyone?

People are literally going to die because of the climate crisis

You make that sound like a bad thing. It's only a bad thing for us, but people dying out is a good thing for the planet, and all the other life on it.

Yes if you actually want to save the planet, start releasing ebola or some other disease amongst people. It's really the only way. You're not going to unless you reduce the population by at least 3/4 quickly.

Thats never a popular opinion though. But thanos was right.

*Yes if you actually want to save the planet, start releasing ebola or some other disease amongst people. It's really the only way. You're not going to unless you reduce the population by at least 3/4 quickly.

Thats never a popular opinion though. But thanos was right. grin*

Exactly. I've been waiting for freak plague for 3 years now

Do you honestly think the world is capable of producing enough vegan stuff to feed everyone?

I don’t just think it, I know it.

Animal farming currently takes up 83% of the world’s agricultural land, but provides only 18% of the world’s calories. This is because it is hugely inefficient to feed livestock on grain. A plant based diet cuts the use of land by 76% and halves the greenhouse gases (source: this paper - science mag.org/content/360/6392/987)

Same. I thought it was going to be ebola, but it wasn't good enough.

Ebola disproportionately affected West Africans. Doesn’t it strike you as slightly inappropriate to be advocating that particular disease as a solution to overpopulation?

@ChristmasSweet apparently there is something new in China. New virus. Not even joking

It’s not good enough to say ‘people dying out is a good thing for the planet’ when we aren’t the ones doing the dying.

We will do eventually. We're making the planet unfit for human habitation, which is great news for the planet.

Ebola disproportionately affected West Africans. Doesn’t it strike you as slightly inappropriate to be advocating that particular disease as a solution to overpopulation?

That's just because it started there. If you released it in Britain it would still target us. It's not racist. One Scottish nurse got it 3 times.

1. I think the so-called climate crisis is blown out of proportion (for political reasons, among others).

1. I'm not convinced that my giving up meat and dairy would even make a difference.

1. I don't think that most vegan alternatives are particularly healthy.

1. I like the taste of meat and dairy and am unwilling to give it up on someone else's say-so (especially since so many of the loudest complainers/demand-makers aren't free "ecological sins" themselves).

there is also an issue of important nutrients:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/vegan-diet-everyone-us-follow-health-impact-meat-nutrients-deficit-supply-scientists-study-a8064981.html

I am vegan but I don't think the best way of approaching this argument is by trying to make people feel bad for what they eat - you're just going to wind people up and turn them off even more.

I like to think I'm making my own small difference by eating vegan, and I feel healthier for it, but I've not stopped flying long-haul or cutting down on plastic as much as I should have - I'm no angel!

I think the awareness is out there and it's up to everyone to do what they feel comfortable with to make a positive impact on the world. Really, we need a lot more buy-in from governments - especially US and China.

That's just because it started there. If you released it in Britain it would still target us. It's not racist. hmm One Scottish nurse got it 3 times.

She got it in west africa, along with 28,000 west Africans.

And if you’re suggesting that, rather than letting climate change wipe out vulnerable people first, someone should deliberately spread a plague in order to wipe out humans in Europe on a wide scale, why pick something as painful and messy as Ebola? Why not advocate an enforced sterilisation lottery? Or since so many people on this thread think slaughterhouse deaths are humane, how about those?

We will do eventually. We're making the planet unfit for human habitation, which is great news for the planet.

Except that we’re also making it unfit for other animals on this planet too. A lot of species will go extinct generations before we do.

And if you’re suggesting that, rather than letting climate change wipe out vulnerable people first, someone should deliberately spread a plague in order to wipe out humans in Europe on a wide scale, why pick something as painful and messy as Ebola? Why not advocate an enforced sterilisation lottery? Or since so many people on this thread think slaughterhouse deaths are humane, how about those?

You could do really, or pick your disease. Ebola was just the first that to mind, but there's plenty others. Forced sterilisation would work but would take longer.