AIBU to think there’s no justification for eating meat and dairy any more?

[AnnoyingVegan]

People are educated now. People know that eating meat and dairy is disastrous for the planet. People know it’s causing an unprecedented climate crisis. People know it causes untold cruelty to animals.

So why are people still doing it? There is a vegan substitute for virtually every meat and dairy product you can think of. What is going on here?

The number of people I’ve seen on social media breaking their hearts over Australia shooting wild camels and horses because they drink too much water while still eating beef blows my mind.

No meat no dairy=no cows, no sheep, no hens so it would be sensible/ ethical to work towards the most humane farming methods possible unless you are happy to see whole species vanish from the planet. Man is omnivorous and the whole balance of the planet would be disturbed if everyone was vegan. However, each to his own. I’d rather reduce tobacco farming and sugar production. I’d ban veal production, foie gras and other extreme and cruel meat products but I am for balance.

Because they taste good, just used fillet steak in a stir fry, bliss. Hair shirts are just too itchy.

Now that a court has decided that veganism is a protected characteristic, I'm going to enjoy it when we carnivores get to ask for the meat choices in vegan restaurants.

mrbob cognitive dissonance at its best is a perfect description. The kind of justifications people make for eating meat are off the wall most of the time.

I'm fed up to the --canine- back teeth of being harangued by people who are incapable of understanding the concepts of evidence-based science, and whose particular viewpoint precludes the interpretation of data in an impartial way.

Just sod off and let me eat my dinner.

I bloody love meat, the rarer the steak the better. Pork and lamb are nice too. And chicken and duck.

But I keep chickens for eggs, they are always rescue birds from the poultry industry and I take pride in keeping them well and love watching them recover from their lives on 'free range' farms when they are completely bald and scraggy, only 72 weeks old and can no longer be relied on to lay an egg every day.

So do I get a pass?

What justification? Plenty have stated they neither need nor want one. They just like to eat meat and dairy.

I follow a mainly vegetarian diet, I was a vegan 25 years ago when it was much more difficult than it is now, two of my teen children are vegan and I'm well versed in the arguments and have some sympathy for them. However, from an environmental perspective they're much too simplistic.

I live in an upland area where sheep farming is the main type of agriculture. The sheep are grass fed, free-range and bred to thrive in the local climate. There is nothing else which will grow here as effectively. We could turn it all over to re-wilding and introduce wolves but that would destroy the agricultural heritage which has made this area a World Heritage Site and I'm not sure it would be too popular with local residents and visitors. It also wouldn't help feed our growing population.

The solution is to eat thoughtfully; grass-fed, organic, locally produced and to pay farmers decent money for their food.

Finally, marg is shite - processed, imported crap usually presented in an unsustainable plastic tub. Anyone who says they'd rather eat it than butter on a lovely piece of warm, fresh bread is lying

A lot of none meat foods cause a big carbon footprint, fruit & vegetables out of season are imported from abroad, eating meat that is grown locally with lower transport costs can often have a lower carbon footprint. Use a supermarket that purchases it's meat regionally, I only buy meat from Morrison's & my local farm shop, Morrison's get most of their meat from Yorkshire farms, they are a Yorkshire based company & I live in Yorkshire, their meat is top quality. My local farm shop breeds their own stock, the animals are slaughtered within 5 miles of the farm & all the meat is sold in their own shop. I am a meat eater & have no intention of giving up meat that tastes good to change to eat fake meat that tastes awful & half the time you don't really know what is in it. I don't use many dairy products, I throw away more milk than I drink & wish that Cravendale would sell smaller amounts than they do now so I could stop wasting as much as I do, the majority of cheese I buy is made in our region, I try to not buy much produced abroad other than parmesan. If more people made use of local growers & breeders of meat & vegetables the carbon footprint could be reduced.

My husband has severe allergies to a number of things (nuts and sesame, among others) that make a lot of the vegan alternatives unsuitable for him. Most products, even if not made from nuts, say "may contain nuts". We do try to reduce dairy intake but it is harder for him to do.

Because steak tastes so bloody nice!

As do ribs, burgers, roast dinners and meat in general.

I can't wait to see the vegans maintain and manage the countryside as well as the farmers do.

It will be a process.

People in general do not like to be told what to eat or do.

Well that's what I think anyway.

I am allergic to soy, all legumes actually, nuts, seeds and oats (among several other things too). What do you propose I eat?

It's hard enough as it is as soya is added needlessly to so many things (I can't buy a sliced loaf for example)

Apart from loving meat and dairy products, the vegan substitutes are full of so much crap, I'd be very scared of eating them even if I didn't have a soya allergy. Many are ridiculously processed.

80% of the world's soya is produced in the Americas (wwf website); how do you think it is transported to the UK?

When you vegans genetically modify a baby carrot to have the same taste and texture of a medium -rare baby sheep then I'll consider it. Until then I'll keep chowing down on the good stuff thanks very much.

OP you seem to have run away from this thread faster than Usain Bolt

& Gregg's veggie sausage rolls taste like crap, I love my bacon sandwiches & a big juicy steak.

I eat what I want to eat. Your opinion and motivation is irrelevant to me.

Bore off

What an apt user name!

Highly processed foods are bad for people, and all the copies of meat and dairy type replacements are highly processed products that are really awful- plasticky and tasteless

Also OP you need to have a broader outlook about the complexities of your simplistic view.

Look up grass length and carbon absorption! For a start. Cows grazing support this.

Where are all the alternatives coming from? Other parts of the world, masses of food flown all over the planet?

We have to look to our own communities to sustain us and block the air miles. Eat seasonal foods, support our local economies, and put an end to the supermarket giants which kill trade and local communities.

What I particularly loathe is activist types showing awful practices from other parts of the world as if they are our far higher slaughter standards. Trying to bully the public into submission. Nasty bullies. One on the tv the other day, who talked over everyone who tried to speak with another view to his, from NZ. Irrational and bullying. Its a shame some are like this and it's upsetting for everyone else, including other vegans.

I occasionally eat meat or dairy but wouldn’t cut them out completely from my diet. I respect the choices that vegans make but I don’t want to do the same. Where do you draw the line? How about humans just all disappear because that will really help the planet.

You're absolutely right OP but unfortunately people think that their own fleeting mouth pleasure is more important than preventing the needless suffering of a frightened sentient creature.

Yes, vegan cheese isn't amazing. Yes, meat and dairy taste good. It's also unethical and people get so angry about veganism because they don't like being confronted with this reality.

It's always the usual mental gymnastics and "Well I only buy local meat from hypothetical lovingly hand reared cows who've never known suffering" and "But what about SOOOOOY" (ignoring the fact that around 90% of soy production is used for animal feed). It's just people who are lying to themselves because they'd rather ignore what's morally right for the sake of their own hedonism.

I think one of the most absolutely most morally bankrupt arguments that I see is this idea that veganism is a middle class or privileged idea, as though vast swathes of land in the developing world aren't being used to grow feed for the animal agriculture industry that continues to put cheap corpses on their table instead of being used to grow food for actual people instead.

The same tired, ignorant tropes get trotted out every time and it's just disgusting watching people, en masse, trying to justify their support of a cultural norm that is so vile, barbaric and wasteful that future generations will look back on it with horror, revulsion and shame.

Type WATCH DOMINION into google, do it, then come back to this thread and keep telling us all how it's fine to eat meat.

Educated people know that we need meat and dairy, and 'substitutes' are not the real thing.

I'm sure your heart is in the right place, I am also concerned about the impact of all sorts of things humans do on the planet. You've committed to being a vegan and I 100 percent applaud you.

However, for most people, for whatever reason won't commit to a vegan diet. You're better off trying to get those people to have, eg two or three meat free days than nothing at all.

If everyone, for example only ate meat in weekends that's better than there being only 600k vegans in the UK.

For me, I know I can't be 100 percent vegan / vegetarian (I have my reasons which I won't go into) but about 50% of my days are meat free and I'm maybe 90% pescetarian on the other days.

I think this is a case of not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

I literally don't care.