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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Early night while DSS is with us.

150 replies

Werkwerkwerkwerk · 09/01/2020 20:56

DSS 12, together with DH 10, married 5. adhoc arrangement with access to fix around work patterns on all sides. Nothing legal. However DSS does have a habit of coming and going as he pleases. Normally no issue.
DH had a dreadful childhood and openly admits he over compensates. So bed times have become a struggle. If we do much as suggest reading in bed or an early night or watching TV in his den. For example if DSS is shattered or To give us some time he sees it as a punishment and will then flatly refuse to come because he gets 'sent to bed early' around 9:30/10. Which IMO is normal or late for a 12 year old. Bedtime doesn't need to be 11pm or later.
So to get to the crux of the issue. 4 years of TTC. 4 failed rounds of IVF. We took time off and agreed to start TTC naturally for 3 months prior to jumping into another round in the NY. Both hate the pressure of sex around the fertile window so both agreed that we'd make more of an effort around this - so not just a 5 minute quickie. We have DSS this week/weekend (ovulating) I'm up at 5:30 for work and don't want to have to wait until 11ish to DTD. (Yes I know I'll be up at all hours if I'm lucky enough to be a mum but I'm trying to do a bit of self care as I was burnt out) DH hates the bedtime issue has tried to get DSS to iPad/watch a movie in bed read, but it turns into a big deal and DH ends up giving in. If he even says I'm off to have a 'shower' leaving DSS watching TV he will pause it until DH comes back, not exactly ideal. AIBU to think for a couple of days he can surely go to bed at 9:30 to give us a little time?

OP posts:
Inherdefence · 10/01/2020 09:56

I think it’s nice he pauses the tv to wait for his dad. He obviously wants to spend time with him.

Sex at 11.00pm sounds good to me. An orgasm will help you sleep and you’ll still have 6 hours before you have to get up.

OkMaybeNot · 10/01/2020 09:58

Seriously though, you're the parents. I can't imagine not having a bit of an evening to myself with DH while the kids are in bed, it's sanity-saving.

He needs to have less of a say here. 10pm isn't early for a 12 year old. You have to set house rules and it's sad, but if he doesn't want to visit you guys because you have different rules to his mum, you're gonna have to stand firm in that.

sonjadog · 10/01/2020 10:04

While I can understand why you want to spend more time on sex than a five minute quickie, for a couple of days while you are ovulating and your SS is in the house, could you not just go back to having a quick shag at some point during the day? It is only for a few days.

Vanhi · 10/01/2020 10:04

I'm sure I would have got a different response. If I'd said TTC DC2 and DC1 won't go to bed. And yes we've discussed parenting.

I'm sorry things are so tough for you at the moment OP and I wish you luck with TTC. I think you would have got different responses yes, but to be honest that's because it's a different situation. There is a different dynamic between me, my bf and his DD to the dynamic between two parents and their biological child. That means situations have to be handled differently.. Bluntly, I'm not her mum. I have to be careful that she doesn't feel pushed out by me. I'm too old now to have my own but if I were TTC with my bf I'd run the risk of pushing her out even further. That requires sensitivity that just isn't there to the same degree with biological children rather than step children.

tinierclanger · 10/01/2020 10:05

I agree he should be in bed a sensible time on a week night. I don’t agree that it should be the same every night. The kid wants to hang out with his dad on a weekend night and stay up a bit later. What’s wrong with that? Why can’t there be a schedule which incorporates a later night at the weekend? It just sounds like the situation isn’t very clear really, if it’s just erratic going to bed whenever any night of the week, so to then jump from that to bed every night at 930 regardless of whether there’s school tomorrow sounds extreme. And he will see bedtime as a punishment if it seems like you’re kicking him out.

I honestly feel for you, I do, I agree you need boundaries but part of that is also understanding the relationship he needs with his dad and working out how to make that work well too.

Maybe my world is hugely different to others on this thread but round here it’s perfectly normal for kids to stay up a bit late at the weekend and hang out with the parents and watch a film, when they get to this kind of age. I really value that time with DS and am pleased he wants to be around us. Yes sometimes we’d like him to clear off and have a bit of adult time, but he won’t be around forever, and you haven’t got DSS there every night so he’s not a permanent fixture in your evenings.

I think if you put a bit more structure on it you’d probably all be happier. Earlier bedtime in the week but that means he can stay up till 1000 with you on a Saturday, you’ll all watch a film and then you go off to bed, he goes to bed or to his den and puts himself to bed. Make there be something in it for him.

Al1cewith2020vision · 10/01/2020 10:06

From upthread, but I wanted to pick this up. However not getting 30 mins to watch TV of an evening with DH or have a chat can be frustrating.

That’s just parenthood though. If you are successful in conceiving you will have this with your own DC in a few years.

Naillig222 · 10/01/2020 10:09

How often does he see his dad?
I understand that TTC is so tough and you've had a particularly hard time but if you're happy for him to sit in his den then it seems the issue isn't concern over his bedtime, it's about you dtd at a specific time, which isn't fair on the child.
He's not young, he'll pick up on you not wanting him around in the evenings.

Lovemusic33 · 10/01/2020 10:09

Can’t you just go to bed at 9.30pm, tell him you are going to bed early but he’s welcome to watch a film in his room (or Den) if he can’t sleep?

I’m often in bed by 10pm so my dd will stay up in her room reading or talking to friends on skype. At the weekend she’s often in her room by 9pm unless there’s something she wants to watch on tv with me.

If he’s only staying over one or 2 nights a week then I think it’s ok for him to stay up and spend time with his dad (and you) but I think during the week you need a set time where he has to be in his room reading, watching a film etc..

Seaweed42 · 10/01/2020 10:11

Sorry for your troubles. You are on a hard road at the minute.
It sounds like the DSS is promixity-seeking. That means he feels insecure unless he is near his Dad (or you, or both of you). The son is wanting to be in his Dad's company. He wants to share the movie with his Dad (and/or both of you) that's why he pauses it.
I think you are having an anger reaction to your DSS. This anger may be with someone else like your DH or yourself or the world.
This stepson is not the thing preventing you from conceiving a child. It's incorrect and unfair to him to implicate him as being of the factors why you are not conceiving.
Your stepson has done nothing wrong. He is just a useful blame object that is lying around the place.
If it were me in your shoes, I would be quite jealous of the DSS and I would resent the fact that my partner had a child of his own too. The longer I did not conceive the more angry I'd be getting.
Do you get counselling on a regular basis as the process you are going through is very stressful?

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 10/01/2020 10:16

We've tried the whole - we are all going to bed early which leads to DSS not visiting because it's boring, he gets sent to bed early and there is nothing to do ......

This child has far too much control. The sex issue is a total red herring. This is 100% a DH problem.

A 12 year old should not be choosing what time they go to bed, let alone dictating what time their parents are allowed to go to bed! Unfortunately, because your DH has spent years giving in to him, your DSS now understands that if he threatens to stop visiting he can call all the shots. Where does this end? It will only get worse as he gets older.

If you are successful in TTC then how is the current bedtime situation going to work? You and your DH will both be shattered from getting up in the night with a baby, but you will be forced to stay up until midnight because a 12 yo demands it? Ridiculous state of affairs.

People saying "he wants to spend time with his Dad"...he doesn't need to stay up until gone 11pm to spend time with his Dad. OP has said DSS is always welcome in their home, he comes and goes as he pleases. If he was so desperate to spend time with his Dad then he wouldn't stop visiting altogether because he tried to enforce a perfectly reasonable, age appropriate bedtime.

LittleDragonGirl · 10/01/2020 10:17

Personally 9am on a school time, 10pm at the latest but probably in room for 9 on weekends would sound about right to me for a 12 year old. Teenagers still need quite a lot of sleep, and setting up good sleep habits now sets up children for life as they get older.

Why dont you and DH just got to bed at 10ish and explain that due to getting up at 5.30 you chose to go to bed early to give you enough sleep. And be consistent about it. That's what my mum did, she was in bed for 9 and up at 6am 😂

FishCanFly · 10/01/2020 10:19

I think he is being deliberately obnoxious. It's not even bedtime if he has all the tech available to amuse himself.

katewhinesalot · 10/01/2020 10:19

You've got yourselves into a situation where ds is entertained. Unless dh wants to maintain boundaries and possibly see less of his ds, then you are stuck with this situation. However unfair it is, you can't change it for the nights you are trying to conceive.

Either dh has to feel "unwell" and "needs" to go to bed or you say in advance that he is ill and cancel this weekend.

I can't see that you have any other options.

lottiegarbanzo · 10/01/2020 10:25

There seem to be two very separate issues here. How you fit in TTC, and your DSS's bedtime routine. I think it would help solve them if you can separate them.

I can't really help with the TTC one, as I haven't been through your experience. I can see why you'd want to take a more relaxed approach when possible but not why that rules out quickies first thing, at lunchtime, or whenever it fits in, too.

The bedtime issue though is a problem for the sake of DSS's health and development and should have been tackled far earlier, in collaboration with his mother. It's close to being too late now, as he approaches the teenage years, their hormonal chaos and social pressures.

He needs a good routine, so that he can rely on getting enough sleep and being rested, healthy (mentally and physically) and ready to face the world on good terms each day, especially when many things that happen during those days will present new challenges and change around him. Someone overtired and unable to recover from tiredness quickly, through a good night's sleep the next night, can easily spiral downwards into emotional problems and inability to concentrate on school work and to move forwards in his life.

I honestly think that good habits and self-care routines are one of the best gifts a parent can give their child. They support lifelong health and development and just cut out a huge number of trivial things that can otherwise take up valuable mental space, far better used for more interesting and rewarding pursuits. I think your DH has been very self-indulgent about this, to his son's detriment.

How to tackle that now? Through modelling good behaviour and gently, circumspectly, enforcing it I think, so that it doesn't feel like 'enforcement'. Rather, doing fun, stimulating things together earlier, making sure everyone gets enough exercise in enjoyable ways, naturally winding down in the later evening - and avoiding screens right before bedtime. There's plenty of literature on the detrimental effects on sleep of screen light at night. Watching a film together, then getting ready for bed is one thing, leaving the boy alone in front of a computer at what should be bedtime is quite another.

He's going to turn into the kind of teen who's up into the early hours seeking emotional stimulation and human interaction online, to make up for what he doesn't get in real life during the day. That's a self-reinforcing fedback loop, to the detriment of education and human relationships.

I'm not saying that all teenage use of the internet is bad, by any means. Or all late nights. I am saying that if these things don't sit within a context of healthy family and peer group relationships and an active 'real' life, with built in good habits, that it can provide a very unhealthy and detrimental channel for teenage emotional development.

Chloemol · 10/01/2020 10:33

I think you are being a bit selfish. He doesn’t see his father a lot, and when he does wants to spend time with him, hence pausing films etc. 9.30 is to early to go to bed,and you want to pack him off to watch a film to suit you and your needs.

Either dtd after he has gone to bed, at whatever time that is, or don’t, but don’t force a child to do something he doesn’t want to just to suit you.

IncrediblySadToo · 10/01/2020 10:38

He sounds like a manipulative little sod & your DH sounds wet. He can’t run scared of telling a 12 yo what’s what!

9:30 is late enough for a 12 yo to go to bed. At 12 bedtime should be boring! And you’re not making him turn the light out anyway. His Mum has done him no favours letting him stay up until she goes to bed. Kids need sleep. Adults should be enforcing it not letting them do as they please

Your DH needs to set a time DSS goes to bed and stick to it. If DSS says he won’t visit, let him crack on with it - he’ll come around. DH needs to parent him or DSS’s teenage years are going to be hell

Werkwerkwerkwerk · 10/01/2020 10:40

@Chloemol I'm not selfish. Would you like to try my 48 weeks ?

OP posts:
Hopein2020 · 10/01/2020 10:43

Op I am so sorry to hear about your boardroom story. I have only had one failed round and it devastated me and it is so hard to pick yourself up and go again. The majority of posters here don’t understand what you are going through as evidenced by their responses.

There is nothing wrong with carving out time to TTC and nothing wrong with your DSS having to go to bed earlier or come a different day if he refuses to go to bed early during these few days a month.

Some posters have good advice about trying to carve out a bedtime routine. I would follow this going forward. I don’t have children but personally don’t believe children should dictate their parents lives based on my experience growing up. My parents were very strict and I had a wonderful upbringing and we are all very well adjusted successful adults. My aunt who was so free and easy with her kids and bedtimes etc now has no end of trouble with her children. That’s

Please don’t let the other posters get to you. In future it would probably be better to post in infertility board where people are both parents/step parents and battling to conceive. Good luck.

nowaypose · 10/01/2020 10:46

If it’s a school night I actually think 9:30 is late for a 12 year old, 9pm seems more reasonable. Weekends I’d probably allow them to stay up till 10pm but that’s the maximum, definitely not 11pm unless it was a special occasion. Perhaps I’m strict but 12 is still pretty young, they need a lot of sleep.

Dragongirl10 · 10/01/2020 10:51

Op l didn't mean to make light of your struggle...l have been there to a lesser degree......it is stressful and difficult .

HoppingPavlova · 10/01/2020 10:51

I’m not a step-parent and no way would I have had sex while my kids that age were in the house. When they were 1/2/3yo sure, no prob. Even up to 8/9yo maybe but after that nope. Once they realise what sex is and if there is a chance if them waking up or hearing, however remote nope, nope, nope. I don’t want to be responsible for a kid having to try and bleach their brain from that. It’s an incredible ick factor for them from a certain age on once they put 2 and 2 together whereas you can get away with it when they are younger and completely clueless. I’m positive we would never have conceived another when ours were past that age simply due to lack of opportunity.

Needless to say all mine still live at home and while they have lives of their own, go out etc invariably there always seems to be one here at any given time. Oh well.

HoppingPavlova · 10/01/2020 10:53

Should have added dtd when they are that age involves being inventive, fast and opportunistic.

mummyway · 10/01/2020 10:58

You and your dp are the adults. You need to agree to a bed time of eg 10pm and stick to it regardless of his tantrums. If you want an early night you tell him he is free to do x y z till an agreed time.
If you don't learn to be the adult and the parent and let the kids have their tantrums etc then you will find the terrible 2's very difficult. Talking from experience of having had 2 kids and just gritting my teeth and sticking it out despite a few tantrums

PurpleBee39 · 10/01/2020 10:58

Hi OP, I just wanted to give you some moral support. I have just been through my first round of IVF and know what the TTC rollercoaster is like. I really hope you can find a way to make TTC much less stressful for you both.
The most important thing is taking care of yourself.
I have found reflexology really helpful.
Best of luck, I really hope it works out for you both and DSS.

bluegreygreen · 10/01/2020 11:00

Like others, I think a lot of DSS' behaviour relates to a need to feel close to his father. You will know the background to that.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned - have you discussed with DH how you plan to parent any future child, and set boundaries around bedtimes etc? This will be difficult if you're not on the same page ...

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