Challenge 25 ID policy.

[Wayland1]

Hello,

What do you think of the policy that requires shops to ask for ID from anybody who looks like they are under the age of 25 when they buy age-restricted products?

It's stupid because all people have to do to get around it is to just put the money on the counter and walk out with the item they are buying. But the notices are still nonetheless very unpleasant to have to look at.

What do you think?

If someone puts money on the counter and leaves. The shop hasn't "sold" it to them.

@FishCanFly - my ex used to do exactly - carry his passport on nights out. It became so battered that when he actually wanted to use it to go on holiday they almost refused to let him on the plane due to the state of it.

I don't think anyone (apart from maybe the OP?) is against the age restrictions and that they are (when applied sensibly) checked.

What I really really don't understand is how you are supposed to prove your age in a country where photo ID isn't compulsory. Like Voter ID it has been shown in study after study to affect the less well-off or marginalised people in society.

Where is this place you can just leave the money?

On the counter.

If someone puts money on the counter and leaves. The shop hasn't "sold" it to them.

But it isn't theft as they've paid. In theory, it's a grey area. In practice, as the shop hasn't lost any money, they have no incentive to take legal action.

In theory, it's a grey area.

Not it's not.

Also, if the council tries to accuse the shop of selling to a minor, they can say that he or she "just rolled me".

I think I've dealt with a firm that employed Wayland1 for legal advice.

I think I've dealt with a firm that employed Wayland1 for legal advice.

What firm would that be, may I ask?

Also, if the council tries to accuse the shop of selling to a minor, they can say that he or she "just rolled me".
What are you on about?
It's not that simple.
If a cashier is investigated for selling alcohol illegally they are in trouble as is the person holding the licence to sell alcohol who is working that day. The license holdart may lose that licence as well as a huge fine or a custodial sentance and the actual shop can lose their licence.
All alcohol sales have to.be approved by the cashier or the till. Of the till says no because you could be under age without I.d. then the transaction will not go through. It's that simple.

Stop being so childish.

What firm would that be, may I ask?

They went bust

I think I've dealt with a firm that employed Wayland1 for legal advice.

Has @Wayland1 explained what is “unpleasant” about the actual signage yet?

Enquiring minds...

*What are you on about?
It's not that simple.
If a cashier is investigated for selling alcohol illegally they are in trouble as is the person holding the licence to sell alcohol who is working that day. The license holdart may lose that licence as well as a huge fine or a custodial sentance and the actual shop can lose their licence.
All alcohol sales have to.be approved by the cashier or the till. Of the till says no because you could be under age without I.d. then the transaction will not go through. It's that simple.

Stop being so childish.*

Okay, a few points.

1. I've never heard of anyone going to prison for selling an age-restricted product to a minor.

2. I'm not being childish. Obviously, you don't agree with me, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think the whole Challenge 25 thing in itself is childish.

If there was an epidemic of kids getting into an argument, and then running to the nearest Lakeland to tool up, I could agree with the sentiments and logic
^100% agree. These kind of rules inconvenience the 99.9% law-abiding, meantime those who are intent on carrying a knife won’t have any trouble obtaining one.

I think the whole Challenge 25 thing in itself is childish.

Not as childish, just very illogical. The law says legal drinking age is 18, not 25.
Also regarding films and games, there is no law that an 11yo can't see a 12 rated video at home.

I think the whole Challenge 25 thing in itself is childish

I agree that the application of the policy is headinh into the realms of farce.

And I think with the ID’ing of middle aged people buying non age-restricted products, or being refused sales of age-restricted products because they have their minor child (or in one case, their mother) with them, we are heading towards de facto mandatory ID.

But it still doesn’t explain what is so unpleasant about the Challenge 25 signage.

1) I've never heard of anyone going to prison for selling an age-restricted product to a minor.

Somehow that didn't come as a great surprise ...

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/18041594.bar-worker-fined-serving-minor-alcohol/

www.bracknellnews.co.uk/news/17809111.wokingham-39-s-bb-wines-fined-selling-kopparberg-minor/

www.stamfordmercury.co.uk/news/nine-businesses-sold-alcohol-to-under-age-children-9095205/

www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/shopkeeper-caught-selling-booze-underage-16701682

A custodial sentence is unlikely in a simple case with no aggravating factors.

My favourite "being asked for I'd" moment was when I was asked for it.... After I'd just built the display for it.

I'm a rep. I had my lanyard on, my car keys in hand. And it was only a can of red bull. The woman had stood and watched me erect this dirty great display, stacking over a hundred cases on it....yet refused to sell me it because my I'd was in my car.

One of those things.

I'd rather they IDd everyone, then allow a minor to buy alcohol. Simple.

On the counter.

In which shop in which country, may I ask @Wayland1. This really is hard work but we may get to the bottom of it soon hopefully.

I'd rather they IDd everyone, then allow a minor to buy alcohol

Red Bull isn't alcoholic. And neither the Think 25 policy, nor the law, requires them to ask for ID for every alcohol purchase in any event. The woman in your example needs to have training again so that she understands her actual obligations.

Usually when people get fined it's small shops where they know full well they are selling to minors, not assistants in chain superstores who thought a 17 year old looked old enough.

In which shop in which country, may I ask Wayland1. This really is hard work but we may get to the bottom of it soon hopefully.

I doubt it would be worth the effort

The woman in your example needs to have training again so that she understands her actual obligations.
Nobody can stop a lowest employee on the team going on a little power trip.

Good point @ProfessorSlocombe, but I really wanted to get down there to test the theory. It must be a shop with very little staff.

Good point @ProfessorSlocombe, but I really wanted to get down there to test the theory. It must be a shop with very little staff.

Corner shop most likely. Can't imagine walking out like that from Asda or Tesco

My work used to be challenge 25. But I asked anyone who I thought looked around 30. Because so many times it was wrong.

If it's unpleasant you can stay in home.